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Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

ladberg 6y ago
Why does China doing something make it ok for the US to do it too?
- ponker 6y ago
  Because if you keep trying to take the "high road" you'll keep losing your IP and getting nothing for it.
  - krageon 6y ago
    You do gain something, namely you don't become the same as the people you're implying are worse than you. If everyone is on the same level, nobody is an improvement over anyone else and the contrast is a purely cosmetic one.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    If you want to do something about Chinese business practices, than do something within the constraints of the law. If TikTok wins, it means that we didn't follow our own laws. Either change the laws or follow the current ones.
    - drevil-v2 6y ago
      What laws are those?
      - cortesoft 6y ago
        Whichever ones TikTok is using to sue? Either they have a case or they don’t, but they still deserve their day in court.
    - DetroitThrow 6y ago
      The executive branch's broad authority to regulate foreign commerce has been a constitutional privilege from the beginning - Jefferson strongly advocated for it, for example. Only legislation would disallow this order from going through.
      - cortesoft 6y ago
        Then the lawsuit will fail, and the system works. What is the problem, then?
        DetroitThrow 6y ago
        Even when the judiciary system works as it's supposed to, that doesn't necessarily mean that justice is being fairly delivered, which would mean there is a problem with the law itself. I think detractors here are misunderstanding what is currently the law and what they think should be the law, in this case.
  - puranjay 6y ago
    No, by taking the "high road" and valuing freedom and rights, you get global influence and alliances that are worth far, far more in the long run than any short-term profits your IP might get you. You don't get world-class talent moving to your country by being a totalitarian state. You get it by valuing individual rights and freedom. I'm amazed at the short-term thinking behind these moves - and the fact that HN, of all places, is cheering it
    - cocktailpeanuts 6y ago
      That only worked when China was a small country economically. Once China passes the U.S. and becomes the #1 economic superpower, none of this matters. These small fish "allies" are not really important. > I'm amazed at the short-term thinking behind these moves - and the fact that HN, of all places, is cheering it Everything you said here we already know. What you don't realize is the world is going through an invisible war right now at a scale of world war 3. These first world country people have never lived a difficult life so they just think everything will be all right just because it's been all right through their entire life. When China gains its dominance by bullying the rest of the world and the rest of the world just trying to "take the high road", they will realize there's no longer anything they can do about the situation because the Chinese economy has become too strong. This is why countries like India are taking the same route already (They were the ones who banned TikTok first). There is no permanent "ally" in the world politics. If you naively think "taking the high road" will win you allies even if it means losing your power, you should study history and learn to see long term.
    - itsoktocry 6y ago
      >No, by taking the "high road" and valuing freedom and rights, you get global influence and alliances that are worth far How can anyone paying attention to global politics for the past 20 years claim this? >I'm amazed at the short-term thinking behind these moves The short-term thinking was Western companies doing everything in their power to appease the CCP in order to gain access to a huge market.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      > you get global influence and alliances The US already has that. > You don't get world-class talent moving to your country by being a totalitarian state Which is why immigrants prefer US to China, banning tic tok is not going to change that.
  - baconandeggs 6y ago
    You don't have to give your IP away. US "business" men willingly gave the Chinese their IP in exchange for cheap labor. You don't have to do that, that is not the only other option. Enforcing current laws is enough. And if it's not, IF, you enact new constitutional laws.
    - ponker 6y ago
      The best time to have banned US corporations from handing IP to China would have been 40 years ago. The next best time is now. And TikTok has nothing to do with any of this, TikTok's "ban" is just the latest random outburst from an insufferable moron.
  - ulfw 6y ago
    What is it the US of A is now "getting"?
- sbmthakur 6y ago
  US companies get access to one market while Chinese companies get access to both markets. While this isn't exactly fair, I don't think Americans are bothered by this. But I guess that won't be the case when most of the Americans get used to a Chinese app and criticism of the CCP is suppressed.
  - cocktailpeanuts 6y ago
    I assure you, all american entrepreneurs are deeply bothered by this. Uber lost in China mainly because of this.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    Which American companies are actually banned/blocked in China because they are American companies?
khuey 6y ago
The US has decided to allow people to sue the government for things like this. Doesn't mean they'll win, of course, but having legal recourse in the courts is something that we have decided to allow.
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  It works out great for fairness usually, and works out great for lawyers' salaries almost always!
baconandeggs 6y ago
Is the chinese "law" the law in the US now? Should we get rid of all government branches and just copy what they do?
BoorishBears 6y ago
I keep seeing comments like this There are reasons you can oppose this ban, but this isn't a good one of those reasons. - The US promises certain freedoms and protections, and TikTok is saying the US is unfairly denying them those freedoms and protections. China doesn't promise those things to anyone, so there's no grounds to complain they're not being fair. I mean, imagine this argument applied to other things. "They don't allow <insert liberty> in their home country, why are they suing the US for denying <insert liberty>?"
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  I agree, I don't fully understand why the comparison is being made here. There are plenty of things that are unfair on either side as far as the law goes; Chinese and US businesses have dealt with that for years unimpeded. The more interesting question is my eyes is who's going to benefit/hurt from all this and why - US consumers, US/Chinese tech cos, US/Chinese foreign interests? I'd love to hear opinions on this aspect. Like another comment said, it'll be interesting to see what comes out in discovery.
- kittiepryde 6y ago
  This makes me think about it mathematically. C(us) -> M{us}; C(ch) -> M{us,ch}; P(c) proportional M; S{C} -> P; Where, the company with greater market access, has greater access to profit, and then greater chances of winning. We strip away all other pretenses, it might just boil down to, S(C(us)) < S(C(ch)), which is just a consequence of the rule set. No way forward, when S(C(us)) > S(C(ch)) is the goal, changing the rule set is the only available action.
- path411 6y ago
  How does the Chinese government sue the us government for not having American rights? This literally makes no sense. How can do many people here not understand that Chinese created companies literally are owned and operated by their gov? How do you think the great firewall/mass gov censureship/social scores work?
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
29athrowaway 6y ago
That makes sense from a common sense point of view, but from a legal point of view, it's much more complicated. China is a different jurisdiction with different legislation, different constitution and a different justice system. It's a completely different set of rules... If an American company sues China... the outcome will be decided on Chinese courts, based on Chinese legislation and Chinese constitutionality. TikTok will fight the US in US courts, abiding to US legislation, US constitutionality, etc... In the end, it will be up to a judge or eventually the US Supreme Court to decide what happens.
buisi 6y ago
Yes, China does censor sites and apps. But is it really good to censor sites and apps just like they do? Aren't we better than that? Do we want anyone having that sort of power?
- madacoo 6y ago
  The aspect I believe you're missing is that any Chinese company with over 50 employees is not a legitimate private company because the CCP essentially claims ownership over them. This means ByteDance is essentially state run and makes the national security risk a legitimate concern. I believe the national security risk argument is stronger in the case of Huawei. Since having a state run company build essential communication infrastructure is clearly a bad idea. However, I think it also applies to ByteDance. Why would you allow a foreign government uninhibited access to huge amounts of data about your citizens? Especially when that government is a hostile totalitarian regime currently engaged in serious human rights violations.
  - DetroitThrow 6y ago
    Well, regardless of being private or public, a foreign owned company having US operations doesn't guarantee it the rights as the US operated equivalent. Foreign commerce is regulated by both the executive and legislative branch - there are no constitutionally guaranteed rights for foreign commerce.
- anotherman554 6y ago
  We already allow Apple (50% of the market) to censor any App they want and ban third party app stores. So no we are not better than that.
helsinkiandrew 6y ago
> two can play this game China is a dictatorship. No one doing business in or with China does so without knowing that they have to toe the party/government line and could loose everything if they don't The US is an elected democracy with a strong respect for the rule of law both domestically and internationally (lets not start debating that - historically and compared with China it has) and has attracted foreign capital and investment because of that. If Trump wants to protect US citizens data then it should tighten privacy law rather than playing nationalistic tit-for-tat which will undermine investor confidence in the US.
izacus 6y ago
China is a totalitarian regime which doesn't follow due process and basic freedoms. I strongly hope that your strange "tit-for-tat" doesn't extend to basic rights of people and businesses on US soil. US is supposed to be better than that, remember?
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  >I strongly hope that your strange "tit-for-tat" doesn't extend to basic rights of people and businesses on US soil. US is supposed to be better than that, remember? I think the issue here is that it's a foreign owned business. I know tit-for-tat might be happening in the eyes of US law makers, but many of the constitutional protections we afford citizens are only extended as a convenience to non-citizens - a convenience usually rooted in positive trade relationships.
- kittiepryde 6y ago
  What basic rights are you worried about?
- khuey 6y ago
  There's no "basic right" of foreign businesses to do business in the United States.
  - logicchains 6y ago
    What about the right of citizens to install whatever software they want on their phones?
    - verroq 6y ago
      They never had that. e.g. Apple.
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        To be more specific, it would be Apple preventing you from doing it in this case. If you had a phone that let you install software on it of your choosing then you could install whatever you want, regardless of who Apple isn't allowed to do business with. They made themselves a chokepoint, so now they're a chokepoint. The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around... no, your phone's only route is through the one corporation.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
China's basis is that foreign companies won't respect their laws. What US laws has TikTok broken? Privacy isn't protected because an entire domestic industry has bought off Congress. Why can't a foreign company participate in the same?
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  >Why can't a foreign company participate in the same? Basically foreign owned companies don't have the same constitutional rights as ones owned by US citizens - these companies operations basically being foreign commerce is where the entity list powers are derived from.
  - janekm 6y ago
    I don't believe you are correct. In the US corporations enjoy "Corporate Personhood", e.g. the corporation itself enjoys many of the same rights as a US person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood Whether TikTok is registered as a US company may be relevant however (I would expect their local operations would be).
    - DetroitThrow 6y ago
      >I don't believe you are correct. In the US corporations enjoy "Corporate Personhood", e.g. the corporation itself enjoys many of the same rights as a US person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood Whether TikTok is registered as a US company may be relevant however (I would expect their local operations would be). Foreign ownership doesn't enjoy the same rights as LLCs registered in the US, ironically. For example, even though Huawei operated in the US through a US LLC, Trump still regulated its associations as defined by the foreign affairs power - as well as how corporations with US operations interacted with these foreign associated Huawei entities. Otherwise corporate personhood would anull all trade deals in the US, and I think even the article you linked mentions their limited protections in the US.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
ulfw 6y ago
So America is no different from China. Got it.
fiblye 6y ago
> People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Who are you defining as “people”? I’ve only ever seen people criticize their bans on media.
zeepzeep 6y ago
Who said that TikTok == China? Maybe, just maybe, they made this as an independent company to continue biz in the US? Also just maybe, they don't want that facebooks clone (Reels) now takes their place? Maybe they don't want to be sh*t all over just cuz they are based in China and do simply not care about the conflicts the countries have?
Negitivefrags 6y ago
This would be a better argument if the US was doing the same thing China is doing. China has censorship laws that you might not like, but you can certainly still choose to comply if you want to be in that market. Indeed, many US companies have chosen to do so and participate in that market while others feel the cost is too high and do not. What could TikTok do to comply here and be allowed in the US? It wasn't banned for non-compliance in some tit-for-tat measure, it was banned for simply being from China.
- mantap 6y ago
  That's not correct. To enter the Chinese market you need to do it with a Chinese company.
  - throw44532 6y ago
    That’s not correct. Tesla did not partner with any Chinese company.
    - mantap 6y ago
      Tesla makes cars, not social media apps.
tveita 6y ago
People would say "This lawsuit is unlikely to succeed in an authoritarian state and either way the important thing is not whether US companies can operate there, but the Chinese government's violations of human rights and curtailing of freedom of their own citizens, and that's what we should be using our social and economic power to address." If the "game" is censorship and social control of citizens, why on earth would you cheer on either side in a tit-for-tat? People are pretending this is about IP or free trade, but it's not like China is going to let people install Signal so US teenagers can install TikTok. Best case scenario is what, a Chinese operated and moderated version of Facebook while the US administration gets to moderate TikTok in the US? Or the Great US Firewall? Or China just endorses Trump and he drops the whole thing. There are tons of legitimate criticisms of China but if this isn't motivated by any of them the outcome is unlikely to be help.

ladberg 6y ago

Why does China doing something make it ok for the US to do it too?

ponker 6y ago
Because if you keep trying to take the "high road" you'll keep losing your IP and getting nothing for it.
- krageon 6y ago
  You do gain something, namely you don't become the same as the people you're implying are worse than you. If everyone is on the same level, nobody is an improvement over anyone else and the contrast is a purely cosmetic one.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  If you want to do something about Chinese business practices, than do something within the constraints of the law. If TikTok wins, it means that we didn't follow our own laws. Either change the laws or follow the current ones.
  - drevil-v2 6y ago
    What laws are those?
    - cortesoft 6y ago
      Whichever ones TikTok is using to sue? Either they have a case or they don’t, but they still deserve their day in court.
  - DetroitThrow 6y ago
    The executive branch's broad authority to regulate foreign commerce has been a constitutional privilege from the beginning - Jefferson strongly advocated for it, for example. Only legislation would disallow this order from going through.
    - cortesoft 6y ago
      Then the lawsuit will fail, and the system works. What is the problem, then?
      - DetroitThrow 6y ago
        Even when the judiciary system works as it's supposed to, that doesn't necessarily mean that justice is being fairly delivered, which would mean there is a problem with the law itself. I think detractors here are misunderstanding what is currently the law and what they think should be the law, in this case.
- puranjay 6y ago
  No, by taking the "high road" and valuing freedom and rights, you get global influence and alliances that are worth far, far more in the long run than any short-term profits your IP might get you. You don't get world-class talent moving to your country by being a totalitarian state. You get it by valuing individual rights and freedom. I'm amazed at the short-term thinking behind these moves - and the fact that HN, of all places, is cheering it
  - cocktailpeanuts 6y ago
    That only worked when China was a small country economically. Once China passes the U.S. and becomes the #1 economic superpower, none of this matters. These small fish "allies" are not really important. > I'm amazed at the short-term thinking behind these moves - and the fact that HN, of all places, is cheering it Everything you said here we already know. What you don't realize is the world is going through an invisible war right now at a scale of world war 3. These first world country people have never lived a difficult life so they just think everything will be all right just because it's been all right through their entire life. When China gains its dominance by bullying the rest of the world and the rest of the world just trying to "take the high road", they will realize there's no longer anything they can do about the situation because the Chinese economy has become too strong. This is why countries like India are taking the same route already (They were the ones who banned TikTok first). There is no permanent "ally" in the world politics. If you naively think "taking the high road" will win you allies even if it means losing your power, you should study history and learn to see long term.
  - itsoktocry 6y ago
    >No, by taking the "high road" and valuing freedom and rights, you get global influence and alliances that are worth far How can anyone paying attention to global politics for the past 20 years claim this? >I'm amazed at the short-term thinking behind these moves The short-term thinking was Western companies doing everything in their power to appease the CCP in order to gain access to a huge market.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    > you get global influence and alliances The US already has that. > You don't get world-class talent moving to your country by being a totalitarian state Which is why immigrants prefer US to China, banning tic tok is not going to change that.
- baconandeggs 6y ago
  You don't have to give your IP away. US "business" men willingly gave the Chinese their IP in exchange for cheap labor. You don't have to do that, that is not the only other option. Enforcing current laws is enough. And if it's not, IF, you enact new constitutional laws.
  - ponker 6y ago
    The best time to have banned US corporations from handing IP to China would have been 40 years ago. The next best time is now. And TikTok has nothing to do with any of this, TikTok's "ban" is just the latest random outburst from an insufferable moron.
- ulfw 6y ago
  What is it the US of A is now "getting"?
sbmthakur 6y ago
US companies get access to one market while Chinese companies get access to both markets. While this isn't exactly fair, I don't think Americans are bothered by this. But I guess that won't be the case when most of the Americans get used to a Chinese app and criticism of the CCP is suppressed.
- cocktailpeanuts 6y ago
  I assure you, all american entrepreneurs are deeply bothered by this. Uber lost in China mainly because of this.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Which American companies are actually banned/blocked in China because they are American companies?

khuey 6y ago

The US has decided to allow people to sue the government for things like this. Doesn't mean they'll win, of course, but having legal recourse in the courts is something that we have decided to allow.

DetroitThrow 6y ago
It works out great for fairness usually, and works out great for lawyers' salaries almost always!

baconandeggs 6y ago

Is the chinese "law" the law in the US now? Should we get rid of all government branches and just copy what they do?

BoorishBears 6y ago

I keep seeing comments like this There are reasons you can oppose this ban, but this isn't a good one of those reasons. - The US promises certain freedoms and protections, and TikTok is saying the US is unfairly denying them those freedoms and protections. China doesn't promise those things to anyone, so there's no grounds to complain they're not being fair. I mean, imagine this argument applied to other things. "They don't allow <insert liberty> in their home country, why are they suing the US for denying <insert liberty>?"

DetroitThrow 6y ago
I agree, I don't fully understand why the comparison is being made here. There are plenty of things that are unfair on either side as far as the law goes; Chinese and US businesses have dealt with that for years unimpeded. The more interesting question is my eyes is who's going to benefit/hurt from all this and why - US consumers, US/Chinese tech cos, US/Chinese foreign interests? I'd love to hear opinions on this aspect. Like another comment said, it'll be interesting to see what comes out in discovery.
kittiepryde 6y ago
This makes me think about it mathematically. C(us) -> M{us}; C(ch) -> M{us,ch}; P(c) proportional M; S{C} -> P; Where, the company with greater market access, has greater access to profit, and then greater chances of winning. We strip away all other pretenses, it might just boil down to, S(C(us)) < S(C(ch)), which is just a consequence of the rule set. No way forward, when S(C(us)) > S(C(ch)) is the goal, changing the rule set is the only available action.
path411 6y ago
How does the Chinese government sue the us government for not having American rights? This literally makes no sense. How can do many people here not understand that Chinese created companies literally are owned and operated by their gov? How do you think the great firewall/mass gov censureship/social scores work?
- BoorishBears 6y ago

29athrowaway 6y ago

That makes sense from a common sense point of view, but from a legal point of view, it's much more complicated. China is a different jurisdiction with different legislation, different constitution and a different justice system. It's a completely different set of rules... If an American company sues China... the outcome will be decided on Chinese courts, based on Chinese legislation and Chinese constitutionality. TikTok will fight the US in US courts, abiding to US legislation, US constitutionality, etc... In the end, it will be up to a judge or eventually the US Supreme Court to decide what happens.

buisi 6y ago

Yes, China does censor sites and apps. But is it really good to censor sites and apps just like they do? Aren't we better than that? Do we want anyone having that sort of power?

madacoo 6y ago
The aspect I believe you're missing is that any Chinese company with over 50 employees is not a legitimate private company because the CCP essentially claims ownership over them. This means ByteDance is essentially state run and makes the national security risk a legitimate concern. I believe the national security risk argument is stronger in the case of Huawei. Since having a state run company build essential communication infrastructure is clearly a bad idea. However, I think it also applies to ByteDance. Why would you allow a foreign government uninhibited access to huge amounts of data about your citizens? Especially when that government is a hostile totalitarian regime currently engaged in serious human rights violations.
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  Well, regardless of being private or public, a foreign owned company having US operations doesn't guarantee it the rights as the US operated equivalent. Foreign commerce is regulated by both the executive and legislative branch - there are no constitutionally guaranteed rights for foreign commerce.
anotherman554 6y ago
We already allow Apple (50% of the market) to censor any App they want and ban third party app stores. So no we are not better than that.

helsinkiandrew 6y ago

> two can play this game China is a dictatorship. No one doing business in or with China does so without knowing that they have to toe the party/government line and could loose everything if they don't The US is an elected democracy with a strong respect for the rule of law both domestically and internationally (lets not start debating that - historically and compared with China it has) and has attracted foreign capital and investment because of that. If Trump wants to protect US citizens data then it should tighten privacy law rather than playing nationalistic tit-for-tat which will undermine investor confidence in the US.

izacus 6y ago

China is a totalitarian regime which doesn't follow due process and basic freedoms. I strongly hope that your strange "tit-for-tat" doesn't extend to basic rights of people and businesses on US soil. US is supposed to be better than that, remember?

DetroitThrow 6y ago
>I strongly hope that your strange "tit-for-tat" doesn't extend to basic rights of people and businesses on US soil. US is supposed to be better than that, remember? I think the issue here is that it's a foreign owned business. I know tit-for-tat might be happening in the eyes of US law makers, but many of the constitutional protections we afford citizens are only extended as a convenience to non-citizens - a convenience usually rooted in positive trade relationships.
kittiepryde 6y ago
What basic rights are you worried about?
khuey 6y ago
There's no "basic right" of foreign businesses to do business in the United States.
- logicchains 6y ago
  What about the right of citizens to install whatever software they want on their phones?
  - verroq 6y ago
    They never had that. e.g. Apple.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      To be more specific, it would be Apple preventing you from doing it in this case. If you had a phone that let you install software on it of your choosing then you could install whatever you want, regardless of who Apple isn't allowed to do business with. They made themselves a chokepoint, so now they're a chokepoint. The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around... no, your phone's only route is through the one corporation.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

China's basis is that foreign companies won't respect their laws. What US laws has TikTok broken? Privacy isn't protected because an entire domestic industry has bought off Congress. Why can't a foreign company participate in the same?

DetroitThrow 6y ago
>Why can't a foreign company participate in the same? Basically foreign owned companies don't have the same constitutional rights as ones owned by US citizens - these companies operations basically being foreign commerce is where the entity list powers are derived from.
- janekm 6y ago
  I don't believe you are correct. In the US corporations enjoy "Corporate Personhood", e.g. the corporation itself enjoys many of the same rights as a US person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood Whether TikTok is registered as a US company may be relevant however (I would expect their local operations would be).
  - DetroitThrow 6y ago
    >I don't believe you are correct. In the US corporations enjoy "Corporate Personhood", e.g. the corporation itself enjoys many of the same rights as a US person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood Whether TikTok is registered as a US company may be relevant however (I would expect their local operations would be). Foreign ownership doesn't enjoy the same rights as LLCs registered in the US, ironically. For example, even though Huawei operated in the US through a US LLC, Trump still regulated its associations as defined by the foreign affairs power - as well as how corporations with US operations interacted with these foreign associated Huawei entities. Otherwise corporate personhood would anull all trade deals in the US, and I think even the article you linked mentions their limited protections in the US.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago

ulfw 6y ago

So America is no different from China. Got it.

fiblye 6y ago

> People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Who are you defining as “people”? I’ve only ever seen people criticize their bans on media.

zeepzeep 6y ago

Who said that TikTok == China? Maybe, just maybe, they made this as an independent company to continue biz in the US? Also just maybe, they don't want that facebooks clone (Reels) now takes their place? Maybe they don't want to be sh*t all over just cuz they are based in China and do simply not care about the conflicts the countries have?

Negitivefrags 6y ago

This would be a better argument if the US was doing the same thing China is doing. China has censorship laws that you might not like, but you can certainly still choose to comply if you want to be in that market. Indeed, many US companies have chosen to do so and participate in that market while others feel the cost is too high and do not. What could TikTok do to comply here and be allowed in the US? It wasn't banned for non-compliance in some tit-for-tat measure, it was banned for simply being from China.

mantap 6y ago
That's not correct. To enter the Chinese market you need to do it with a Chinese company.
- throw44532 6y ago
  That’s not correct. Tesla did not partner with any Chinese company.
  - mantap 6y ago
    Tesla makes cars, not social media apps.

tveita 6y ago

People would say "This lawsuit is unlikely to succeed in an authoritarian state and either way the important thing is not whether US companies can operate there, but the Chinese government's violations of human rights and curtailing of freedom of their own citizens, and that's what we should be using our social and economic power to address." If the "game" is censorship and social control of citizens, why on earth would you cheer on either side in a tit-for-tat? People are pretending this is about IP or free trade, but it's not like China is going to let people install Signal so US teenagers can install TikTok. Best case scenario is what, a Chinese operated and moderated version of Facebook while the US administration gets to moderate TikTok in the US? Or the Great US Firewall? Or China just endorses Trump and he drops the whole thing. There are tons of legitimate criticisms of China but if this isn't motivated by any of them the outcome is unlikely to be help.