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That works at a small scale. When things get big, people start behaving badly... or alternately you could say that when things get big their surface area become

by api 6y ago

That works at a small scale. When things get big, people start behaving badly... or alternately you could say that when things get big their surface area becomes sufficient so as to encompass a lot of bad behavior. The problem is that not all software tasks are small. There are many valuable problems and applications that are too difficult for a single individual or a very small group to address. As soon as you get more than one person involved you start to need the infrastructure of a business, and that's expensive. You quickly outgrow what voluntarist community scale systems can handle.

number6 6y ago
On the other hand there is Mastodon, there is KDE, there is the Linux Kernel. All varying in their level of infrastructure but all are communitys of volunteers. Most programming languages work this way too
- api 6y ago
  All these things are used by nerds and have little chance of breaking into the mainstream. They're too labor intensive to use and deploy and impose too much cognitive load. 10% of the work is making it work. The user experience necessary for mass adoption is the other 90%, and it's mostly work that is not fun and that people must therefore be paid to do. If the goal is just to have a for-nerds-by-nerds ecosystem that's fine, though ultimately I think without mass market penetration it's likely that the hardware ecosystem will eventually close. We are seeing the encroachment of locked boot loaders everywhere. Eventually it may be hard to get a fast modern chip that can run the open stuff if the open stuff does not have sufficient mass in the economy to demand it. That and I for one think privacy and freedom for everyone is a worthy goal. For-nerds-by-nerds is elitist.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Linux isn't mainstream? Sure, by consumers running as a desktop operating system but consumers are using Linux all the time; they just don't know it. (Android, Amazon, Chromebooks, many cars, etc.) Linux isn't like the two other things on that list.
    - api 6y ago
      Android and Chromebooks are usually pretty closed in spite if having a Linux kernel.
- ghaff 6y ago
  >there is the Linux Kernel The Linux kernel is most certainly not a community of volunteers. It's overwhelmingly developers doing this as their day jobs. From the 2017 Linux Kernel Development Report: : "It is worth noting that, even if one assumes that all of the “unknown” contributors are working on their own time, well over 85 percent of all kernel development is demonstrably done by developers who are being paid for their work."
  - number6 6y ago
    > The Linux kernel is most certainly not a community of volunteers. This depends on the definition of community. While most of the developers are paid for their time. Someone voluntarily contributes this developer time to the kernel. Now you could argue that the companies don't do this voluntarily but are driven by market forces etc. On the other hand, these companies could just ignore the the Linux Environment; and some companies do this.
anoplus 6y ago
> When things get big, people start behaving badly Good point. As the sense of belonging is also important. I commented about it in another post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23414793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23414793 > "Humans are tribal and their survival depends on teamwork of about ~100 people or so. This is natural on intimate scale." Readers suggested a couple of ideas on this. Maybe the scale is solved by having a network of small groups connected, where each group has a "representative" that is also a member in group of "representatives". And maybe members can also intentionally exchange groups periodically to build natural connections across groups.

by api 6y ago

number6 6y ago

On the other hand there is Mastodon, there is KDE, there is the Linux Kernel. All varying in their level of infrastructure but all are communitys of volunteers. Most programming languages work this way too

api 6y ago
All these things are used by nerds and have little chance of breaking into the mainstream. They're too labor intensive to use and deploy and impose too much cognitive load. 10% of the work is making it work. The user experience necessary for mass adoption is the other 90%, and it's mostly work that is not fun and that people must therefore be paid to do. If the goal is just to have a for-nerds-by-nerds ecosystem that's fine, though ultimately I think without mass market penetration it's likely that the hardware ecosystem will eventually close. We are seeing the encroachment of locked boot loaders everywhere. Eventually it may be hard to get a fast modern chip that can run the open stuff if the open stuff does not have sufficient mass in the economy to demand it. That and I for one think privacy and freedom for everyone is a worthy goal. For-nerds-by-nerds is elitist.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Linux isn't mainstream? Sure, by consumers running as a desktop operating system but consumers are using Linux all the time; they just don't know it. (Android, Amazon, Chromebooks, many cars, etc.) Linux isn't like the two other things on that list.
  - api 6y ago
    Android and Chromebooks are usually pretty closed in spite if having a Linux kernel.
ghaff 6y ago
>there is the Linux Kernel The Linux kernel is most certainly not a community of volunteers. It's overwhelmingly developers doing this as their day jobs. From the 2017 Linux Kernel Development Report: : "It is worth noting that, even if one assumes that all of the “unknown” contributors are working on their own time, well over 85 percent of all kernel development is demonstrably done by developers who are being paid for their work."
- number6 6y ago
  > The Linux kernel is most certainly not a community of volunteers. This depends on the definition of community. While most of the developers are paid for their time. Someone voluntarily contributes this developer time to the kernel. Now you could argue that the companies don't do this voluntarily but are driven by market forces etc. On the other hand, these companies could just ignore the the Linux Environment; and some companies do this.

anoplus 6y ago

> When things get big, people start behaving badly Good point. As the sense of belonging is also important. I commented about it in another post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23414793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23414793 > "Humans are tribal and their survival depends on teamwork of about ~100 people or so. This is natural on intimate scale." Readers suggested a couple of ideas on this. Maybe the scale is solved by having a network of small groups connected, where each group has a "representative" that is also a member in group of "representatives". And maybe members can also intentionally exchange groups periodically to build natural connections across groups.