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Secret Landscape: America's cold war infrastructure

67 points by rsj_hn 6y ago

thspimpolds 6y ago
If you liked the stuff here, I would highly encourage you to read this: https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-While/dp/1476735409 https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-... It's very well written and lots of pictures (half the book)
md_ 6y ago
Very cool. This reminds me a bit of Trevor Paglan's work, and especially https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qkv8ww/the-geography-of-secret-places-watching-the-watchers-with-trevor-paglen https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qkv8ww/the-geography-of-s... and https://www.amazon.com/Blank-Spots-Map-Geography-Pentagons/dp/0525951016/ https://www.amazon.com/Blank-Spots-Map-Geography-Pentagons/d....
- LMYahooTFY 6y ago
  Same here, I immediately thought of Paglen. Very intriguing and unique work.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  Another Paglen classic, which I highly recommend to anyone interested in this sort of thing, is "I Could Tell You But Then You Would Have to Be Destroyed By Me: Emblems from the Pentagon's Black World".[1][2] [1] - https://hatoffoil.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/i-could-tell-you-but-then-you-would-have-to-be-destroyed-by-me-trevor-paglen.pdf https://hatoffoil.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/i-could-tell-y... [2] - https://www.amazon.com/Could-Tell-Then-Would-Destroyed/dp/193555414X https://www.amazon.com/Could-Tell-Then-Would-Destroyed/dp/19...
the-dude 6y ago
Reminds me of 'The Secrets Of Cornwall - Part 1 - Communications' : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_nnUbX7uuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_nnUbX7uuQ All kinds of bland looking, unmarked buildings housing telecom equipment for the onshoring fibres.
whalesalad 6y ago
I used to go drive up to an abandoned Nike missile site in the LA area late at night. As a teenager, alone, it was super spooky to roll up on all the barbed wire and warning signs.
- mikestew 6y ago
  The dog and I used to investigate one of the remaining Nike missile bases in the Redmond, WA area when we'd run the pre-dawn hours of winter. We stayed outside of all warning signs, fences, and cameras of course. But it looks like the land next door will be sold for a (what I assume will be) subdivision one of these days, so better hurry because I'll bet the missile base land (owned by a school district, last I checked) will go soon, too: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6850787,-122.078686,3a,48.9y,73.69h,95.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl6sBllwGRomCu64KHgcCIw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6850787,-122.078686,3a,48.9y...
adolph 6y ago
I wonder how much of the capabilities outlined in this work, like Texas Towers [0,1] have contemporary analalogies, like SBX [2]. 0. http://coldwar-c4i.net/TexasTowers/EE0755-629.html http://coldwar-c4i.net/TexasTowers/EE0755-629.html 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Towers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Towers 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-based_X-band_Radar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-based_X-band_Radar
arethuza 6y ago
For some UK sites you can use the relevant categories on Subterranea Britannica: https://www.subbrit.org.uk/ https://www.subbrit.org.uk/
ckozlowski 6y ago
I was sitting in one of my college classes one evening when I was passing papers up to the professor, and saw this guy's name on the page. Figuring there weren't many "Albert LaFrance"s around, I chatted him up afterwards and found much to my delight that he indeed was the one. Nice guy! I asked him how and why he decided to start putting the page together. He told me about how he'd grown up in Northern VA and wondered what the Tyson's Corner tower was for. (http://coldwar-c4i.net/Site_E/index.html http://coldwar-c4i.net/Site_E/index.html ) That took him down a rabbit hole of research into that and other things, and ended up where he is today. At least, that's the story, to the best of my recollection.
- madengr 6y ago
  I used to live in VA in the early 90’s. Many comms sites on the mountain between 50 and 7, near Mount Weather. Funny, I used to buy clothes at the Bells near the base of that tower at Tyson’s. I have an old AT&T Long Lines microwave transceiver. Similar blast hardened sites used to dot the country, then many towers were torn down. https://www.missilebases.com/communication-bunker https://www.missilebases.com/communication-bunker
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  Certainly not many young Albert Lafrances...the first page of google results are full of obituaries for at least 4 unique Albert Lafrances.
swader999 6y ago
Wow I miss the grey blue black pages of the nineties!
WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
I grew up where a nike missile base was built on federal prison land. When I was 10, the base was shut down and the prison took over the buildings, for administrative use. Different agencies occasionally showed up for various kinds of training. Nights and weekend it was all empty except for the occasional patrol truck. That left lots of time for nosing around & sometimes finding cool stuff. Dodging Deputy Dawg was a bonus round (Except for that one time with dogs. Where did they freaking get dogs?). Another bonus was the occasional home visit by an FBI agent (only ever one). I think they spooked me more than police detectives ever did, even tho the agents were probably just tapping my shoulder. Note: Here, "It was a different time" meant I didn't get life-changing punishments/black-marks for my age-impaired ambitions.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  To nose around without the VPS of B&E, Bay Area HN'ers can visit: https://www.nps.gov/goga/nike-missile-site.htm https://www.nps.gov/goga/nike-missile-site.htm (I had first heard of this site as a conspiracy theory from a non-tech bay area friend who swore to god that as a teenager he'd broken into a Nike site — and left immediately, as he was freaked out to find all sorts of new tools and electronics about, implying someone was repurposing the missile launchers. It is reassuring to discover it had just been the cold war equivalent of napoleonic reenactors...)
- cvs268 6y ago
  > nike missile base Just do it, eh? :P
pmoriarty 6y ago
I've sometimes wondered how unique the United States is in its regular, official release of formerly secret documents on these sorts of subjects. I don't expect the former Soviet Republics to have a Freedom of Information Act, nor to willingly release formerly secret documents to the public. So, while I'm sure there are a mountain of equally fascinating Cold Ware era places, equipment, and projects in the former Soviet Union, I suspect not nearly as many of them are known by the general public as are those of the United States. It's also fascinated me that for so many formerly secret things in the US, foreign intelligence agencies can simply look in the public record instead of having to do their own leg work and ferret them out on their own. Some nagging doubt remains in me that some of this sensitive information might still be useful to an American adversary, despite formal declassification review. Many other countries probably take no such chances.
- adventured 6y ago
  > Many other countries probably take no such chances. As a superpower the US is extraordinarily unusual in that regard. China is approximately a trillion times more secretive by comparison. You can find out vast amounts of information about US weapons systems, technology & IP, government agencies, employees, buildings, national agenda, states & related information, financial information is hyper transparent (both government and corporate), critical infrastructure (such as energy & utilities systems), white papers & super valuable research pouring out of our companies & universities & government agencies, and on it goes. As an example, just look at what NASA has pushed out into the global public sphere over the last 50 years. US elite technology companies are often open books about what they're doing, look at what Tesla and SpaceX allow to be revealed; look at how many of the biggest US tech companies open source their best tools (including Google & Facebook to name two), instead of trying to keep it all for themselves. There's a reason China has been pillaging US intellectual property and research so freely, it's all just sitting there for the taking, begging to be hoovered up. We share immensely with the world. I don't think we get much credit for doing it though, I think most of the world is oblivious to it at best.
- yencabulator 6y ago
  One difference is that the US has lots of land, and tends to abandon whole sites. If a European country has a secret cave or three, those caves will be kept secret even if their purpose changes. Source: Have been in one. No I can't tell you.

67 points by rsj_hn 6y ago

If you liked the stuff here, I would highly encourage you to read this: https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-While/dp/1476735409 https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-... It's very well written and lots of pictures (half the book)

md_ 6y ago

Very cool. This reminds me a bit of Trevor Paglan's work, and especially https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qkv8ww/the-geography-of-secret-places-watching-the-watchers-with-trevor-paglen https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qkv8ww/the-geography-of-s... and https://www.amazon.com/Blank-Spots-Map-Geography-Pentagons/dp/0525951016/ https://www.amazon.com/Blank-Spots-Map-Geography-Pentagons/d....

LMYahooTFY 6y ago
Same here, I immediately thought of Paglen. Very intriguing and unique work.
pmoriarty 6y ago
Another Paglen classic, which I highly recommend to anyone interested in this sort of thing, is "I Could Tell You But Then You Would Have to Be Destroyed By Me: Emblems from the Pentagon's Black World".[1][2] [1] - https://hatoffoil.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/i-could-tell-you-but-then-you-would-have-to-be-destroyed-by-me-trevor-paglen.pdf https://hatoffoil.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/i-could-tell-y... [2] - https://www.amazon.com/Could-Tell-Then-Would-Destroyed/dp/193555414X https://www.amazon.com/Could-Tell-Then-Would-Destroyed/dp/19...

the-dude 6y ago

Reminds me of 'The Secrets Of Cornwall - Part 1 - Communications' : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_nnUbX7uuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_nnUbX7uuQ All kinds of bland looking, unmarked buildings housing telecom equipment for the onshoring fibres.

whalesalad 6y ago

I used to go drive up to an abandoned Nike missile site in the LA area late at night. As a teenager, alone, it was super spooky to roll up on all the barbed wire and warning signs.

mikestew 6y ago
The dog and I used to investigate one of the remaining Nike missile bases in the Redmond, WA area when we'd run the pre-dawn hours of winter. We stayed outside of all warning signs, fences, and cameras of course. But it looks like the land next door will be sold for a (what I assume will be) subdivision one of these days, so better hurry because I'll bet the missile base land (owned by a school district, last I checked) will go soon, too: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6850787,-122.078686,3a,48.9y,73.69h,95.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl6sBllwGRomCu64KHgcCIw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6850787,-122.078686,3a,48.9y...

adolph 6y ago

I wonder how much of the capabilities outlined in this work, like Texas Towers [0,1] have contemporary analalogies, like SBX [2]. 0. http://coldwar-c4i.net/TexasTowers/EE0755-629.html http://coldwar-c4i.net/TexasTowers/EE0755-629.html 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Towers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Towers 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-based_X-band_Radar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-based_X-band_Radar

arethuza 6y ago

For some UK sites you can use the relevant categories on Subterranea Britannica: https://www.subbrit.org.uk/ https://www.subbrit.org.uk/

ckozlowski 6y ago

I was sitting in one of my college classes one evening when I was passing papers up to the professor, and saw this guy's name on the page. Figuring there weren't many "Albert LaFrance"s around, I chatted him up afterwards and found much to my delight that he indeed was the one. Nice guy! I asked him how and why he decided to start putting the page together. He told me about how he'd grown up in Northern VA and wondered what the Tyson's Corner tower was for. (http://coldwar-c4i.net/Site_E/index.html http://coldwar-c4i.net/Site_E/index.html ) That took him down a rabbit hole of research into that and other things, and ended up where he is today. At least, that's the story, to the best of my recollection.

madengr 6y ago
I used to live in VA in the early 90’s. Many comms sites on the mountain between 50 and 7, near Mount Weather. Funny, I used to buy clothes at the Bells near the base of that tower at Tyson’s. I have an old AT&T Long Lines microwave transceiver. Similar blast hardened sites used to dot the country, then many towers were torn down. https://www.missilebases.com/communication-bunker https://www.missilebases.com/communication-bunker
oh_sigh 6y ago
Certainly not many young Albert Lafrances...the first page of google results are full of obituaries for at least 4 unique Albert Lafrances.

swader999 6y ago

Wow I miss the grey blue black pages of the nineties!

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago

I grew up where a nike missile base was built on federal prison land. When I was 10, the base was shut down and the prison took over the buildings, for administrative use. Different agencies occasionally showed up for various kinds of training. Nights and weekend it was all empty except for the occasional patrol truck. That left lots of time for nosing around & sometimes finding cool stuff. Dodging Deputy Dawg was a bonus round (Except for that one time with dogs. Where did they freaking get dogs?). Another bonus was the occasional home visit by an FBI agent (only ever one). I think they spooked me more than police detectives ever did, even tho the agents were probably just tapping my shoulder. Note: Here, "It was a different time" meant I didn't get life-changing punishments/black-marks for my age-impaired ambitions.

082349872349872 6y ago
To nose around without the VPS of B&E, Bay Area HN'ers can visit: https://www.nps.gov/goga/nike-missile-site.htm https://www.nps.gov/goga/nike-missile-site.htm (I had first heard of this site as a conspiracy theory from a non-tech bay area friend who swore to god that as a teenager he'd broken into a Nike site — and left immediately, as he was freaked out to find all sorts of new tools and electronics about, implying someone was repurposing the missile launchers. It is reassuring to discover it had just been the cold war equivalent of napoleonic reenactors...)
cvs268 6y ago
> nike missile base Just do it, eh? :P

pmoriarty 6y ago

I've sometimes wondered how unique the United States is in its regular, official release of formerly secret documents on these sorts of subjects. I don't expect the former Soviet Republics to have a Freedom of Information Act, nor to willingly release formerly secret documents to the public. So, while I'm sure there are a mountain of equally fascinating Cold Ware era places, equipment, and projects in the former Soviet Union, I suspect not nearly as many of them are known by the general public as are those of the United States. It's also fascinated me that for so many formerly secret things in the US, foreign intelligence agencies can simply look in the public record instead of having to do their own leg work and ferret them out on their own. Some nagging doubt remains in me that some of this sensitive information might still be useful to an American adversary, despite formal declassification review. Many other countries probably take no such chances.

adventured 6y ago
> Many other countries probably take no such chances. As a superpower the US is extraordinarily unusual in that regard. China is approximately a trillion times more secretive by comparison. You can find out vast amounts of information about US weapons systems, technology & IP, government agencies, employees, buildings, national agenda, states & related information, financial information is hyper transparent (both government and corporate), critical infrastructure (such as energy & utilities systems), white papers & super valuable research pouring out of our companies & universities & government agencies, and on it goes. As an example, just look at what NASA has pushed out into the global public sphere over the last 50 years. US elite technology companies are often open books about what they're doing, look at what Tesla and SpaceX allow to be revealed; look at how many of the biggest US tech companies open source their best tools (including Google & Facebook to name two), instead of trying to keep it all for themselves. There's a reason China has been pillaging US intellectual property and research so freely, it's all just sitting there for the taking, begging to be hoovered up. We share immensely with the world. I don't think we get much credit for doing it though, I think most of the world is oblivious to it at best.
yencabulator 6y ago
One difference is that the US has lots of land, and tends to abandon whole sites. If a European country has a secret cave or three, those caves will be kept secret even if their purpose changes. Source: Have been in one. No I can't tell you.