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It's not history though. The same attitudes prevail today. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK. France are bombing most of N Africa and involved in all sor

It's not history though. The same attitudes prevail today. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK. France are bombing most of N Africa and involved in all sorts of shady deals in Africa in general. The list is long and current.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
Northern Ireland is still part of the UK because the majority of the people wish it so. The British Secretary of State is required to hold a referendum to rejoin the South if he/she believes that it will pass. Don't get me wrong, it's bad but its 1000x better in the last 20-30 years.
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  Which people? If you want to undo colonialism you need to include all Irish people in this measure and I can tell you not many Irish nationals if even that want it to be like it is. I'm probably the most outlier opinion in that I think they should be their own country outside of both the UK and Ireland. From politico: Overall, the results showed 65 percent "yes" versus 19 percent "no." Excluding undecided voters and those who refused to answer — 15 percent — nearly four in five respondents who had made up their minds said they would vote in favor. https://www.politico.eu/article/election-two-thirds-of-irish-would-vote-for-united-ireland/ https://www.politico.eu/article/election-two-thirds-of-irish...
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    Full disclosure: I am from the South of Ireland (i.e. the Republic). I actually have always agreed with your outlier opinion, but you need both countries to be in the EU to make it work (shrug). You are not counting the appropriate people in your study. A pretty large majority of people in the Republic would like to see the North become part of their country. However, our opinion is less important than the opinions of the people living in Northern Ireland, and in that part of the island, there is not a strong majority for re-unification. Like my original point is what the Good Friday/Belfast agreement states, so I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me.
    - rorykoehler 6y ago
      I’m talking more about decolonisation. If you steal something it was and is never yours to begin with. GFA was only necessary because of colonial history and continuing attitudes and the power games that come with them. There is one school of thought (which the GFA falls under) which is what’s happened in the past is legitimate and we have to work from where we are and there is another which is that the colonial past is illegitimate and therefore any gains are also illegitimate and most be returned to their rightful owner. I don’t subscribe to either necessarily but seeing as continuing prevailing attitudes among the colonial elite haven’t changed one bit I think we have no choice but to confront them gloves off style. It’s literally stealing our collective global future.
      - wankeler 6y ago
        How far back do you want to unwind? Should all non-aboriginals be disenfranchised or removed from Australia? At some point you have to work with things as they are and move forward.
        rorykoehler 6y ago
        Australia is an exceptionally interesting case study. Tbh I don’t have the answer to that as you are 100% correct too.
      - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Even given the colonialisation, there's a large proportion of the populace in Northern Ireland who feel British, and do not want to be Irish. Your argument appears to be that this doesn't matter because the land should never have been theirs in the first place. I 100% reject that argument as it's essentially forcing people to live in a country which they have not chosen. And on a practical level, this would probably lead to violence from Unionists in the North, which I don't think anyone wants.
        rorykoehler 6y ago
        Precisely why I advocate for Northern Irish independence.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago

Northern Ireland is still part of the UK because the majority of the people wish it so. The British Secretary of State is required to hold a referendum to rejoin the South if he/she believes that it will pass. Don't get me wrong, it's bad but its 1000x better in the last 20-30 years.

rorykoehler 6y ago
Which people? If you want to undo colonialism you need to include all Irish people in this measure and I can tell you not many Irish nationals if even that want it to be like it is. I'm probably the most outlier opinion in that I think they should be their own country outside of both the UK and Ireland. From politico: Overall, the results showed 65 percent "yes" versus 19 percent "no." Excluding undecided voters and those who refused to answer — 15 percent — nearly four in five respondents who had made up their minds said they would vote in favor. https://www.politico.eu/article/election-two-thirds-of-irish-would-vote-for-united-ireland/ https://www.politico.eu/article/election-two-thirds-of-irish...
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  Full disclosure: I am from the South of Ireland (i.e. the Republic). I actually have always agreed with your outlier opinion, but you need both countries to be in the EU to make it work (shrug). You are not counting the appropriate people in your study. A pretty large majority of people in the Republic would like to see the North become part of their country. However, our opinion is less important than the opinions of the people living in Northern Ireland, and in that part of the island, there is not a strong majority for re-unification. Like my original point is what the Good Friday/Belfast agreement states, so I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me.
  - rorykoehler 6y ago
    I’m talking more about decolonisation. If you steal something it was and is never yours to begin with. GFA was only necessary because of colonial history and continuing attitudes and the power games that come with them. There is one school of thought (which the GFA falls under) which is what’s happened in the past is legitimate and we have to work from where we are and there is another which is that the colonial past is illegitimate and therefore any gains are also illegitimate and most be returned to their rightful owner. I don’t subscribe to either necessarily but seeing as continuing prevailing attitudes among the colonial elite haven’t changed one bit I think we have no choice but to confront them gloves off style. It’s literally stealing our collective global future.
    - wankeler 6y ago
      How far back do you want to unwind? Should all non-aboriginals be disenfranchised or removed from Australia? At some point you have to work with things as they are and move forward.
      - rorykoehler 6y ago
        Australia is an exceptionally interesting case study. Tbh I don’t have the answer to that as you are 100% correct too.
    - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
      Even given the colonialisation, there's a large proportion of the populace in Northern Ireland who feel British, and do not want to be Irish. Your argument appears to be that this doesn't matter because the land should never have been theirs in the first place. I 100% reject that argument as it's essentially forcing people to live in a country which they have not chosen. And on a practical level, this would probably lead to violence from Unionists in the North, which I don't think anyone wants.
      - rorykoehler 6y ago
        Precisely why I advocate for Northern Irish independence.