8 ms·

Couldn't agree more. High end fashion is woefully overpriced items that predominantly largely priced on their brand rather their functionality and material. Wh

by colmvp 6y ago

Couldn't agree more. High end fashion is woefully overpriced items that predominantly largely priced on their brand rather their functionality and material. While yes, you could make the same argument with technology, I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone. And after working briefly in the fashion industry as a developer, I found a lot more people involved in the field to be incredibly snobby and superficial, as in literally judging people by their looks which shouldn't be surprising given that is what the industry is about.

okamiueru 6y ago
To be fair, and you even bringing it up, apple products is to some degree the fashion equivalent in tech. I recently had to buy a MacOs compatible hardware for the first time in years, and I had really no idea how large the difference has become. Apple products truly are "way of life", more than anything tangible. And when choosing to upgrade components, I really couldn't believe it. It was more than twice the comparable value. In some cases 8 times. In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware?
- ponker 6y ago
  But there are functional reasons to prefer Apple hardware as well. I use almost exclusively Apple hardware and I own one garment worth more than $30.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware? The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. The amortized cost of an Apple device in my 15 year + experience with them has always been less than the competitors. Especially if you add my troubleshooting time. Not to mention they’ve been selling iPad Minis for $400 for 7 or 8 years, and they now have an iPhone at $400. Their stuff works, they offer physical stores you can get technical support at, and they seem to be the best offering for privacy conscious users.
  - cma 6y ago
    Upgrading an ssd on them costs 3-4x as much as on a normal laptop.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    >The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. I love (and almost exclusively use) Apple products for many of the reasons you listed. But I think it's disingenuous to deny that there is an element of Apple's branding and design that is based on fashion. Exhibit A: Laptops and phones getting thinner and thinner at the expense of battery life and other features (headphone jack). Exhibit B: “A computer absolutely can be sexy… yeah, it can” – The glorious ways Jony Ive has described Apple products https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sophisticated-intuitive-imperceptible-and-instantaneous-here-are-the-glorious-ways-jony-ive-has-described-apple-products-3888655 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sophisticated-intuitive-...
    - sukilot 6y ago
      There's a difference between fashionable junk and fashionable quality. The difference is what Jobs and Ive call "design". Spending extra on design isn't the eco disaster that spending on throwaway fashion is.
      - mthoms 6y ago
        You're preaching to the converted. I only disagreed with the notion that there is absolutely no "fashion" component of Apple's products or branding at all. Of course there is.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. Speaking as someone who has spent a fair share of money on Apple products, It really doesn't. Apple is in the business of selling Veblen goods, and unless you are in a niche domain that requires niche software, Apple does not offer anything that makes a significant difference when compared with what ships with other platforms. This is specially true nowadays as the bulk of the work done by anyone is performed through a browser. I mean, Finder works but no one spends $2k on a laptop just because you can open files like a champ. In order to understand the appeal of Apple's product line, all you need to check is the rationale of companies who try to entice potential hires by advertising how they make available flashy Apple hardware to their employees.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  > In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware? Just about all of them, from cars to ski equipment. But that's not what's happening here.
- ImaCake 6y ago
  I recently got a macbook after having never owned an apple computer (besides a 2nd hand iphone 5). The improvements compared to windows and linux are really impressive. This device does exactly what I want it for; unix native shell support and performance without linux problems. Windows still has it's place, but Macbooks still provide real value.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  There's clearly an appeal of the Apple brand to people. But I think that the appeal comes much more as a form of "general belonging" rather than as a "fad". Usually "fashionable" items (be it clothing or others) are quite noticeably different from year to year. To the untrained eye, my 7 year old mbp doesn't look all that different from a brand new 2020 one. If I open it up in public, I'll look like "a guy who uses apple". People won't know that I'm out of style because I rock an "ancient" laptop. This seems true for iphones, too. The models before the X look somewhat different because of the button, but aside from the cameras being changed, I can't easily tell apart the newer models without a home button.
jariel 6y ago
" I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone." I think you might have missed the fact that what you value is not what other people value. At the 'high end' of fashion, there's an incredible degree of artisanal effort, and FYI most of those items are well made and will last a lifetime. Using 'Apple' - which takes its design and pricing cues literally from the world of fashion and design, is actually an argument in favour of the industry, not against it.
Scoundreller 6y ago
> I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone. Yep, their Total Cost of Ownership can make them very appealing. I’ve made significant contributions towards my MacBook Air upgrades by selling the old one part-for-part.
- sukilot 6y ago
  Which parts of a Mac laptop to people buy by the part? I congratulate you for your thriftiness and ecological contribution, but surely this is an extremely niche practice.
  - geerlingguy 6y ago
    Any piece that you can dissemble, from the top case and keyboard, to the logic board, to the display and bezel. And on older ones, they even had those amazing removable drives and RAM... and remember, since the drives at least were using a slightly proprietary form factor, you either have to buy a used OEM drive or a more expensive 3rd party replacement like the ones from OWC. But even an old broken MacBook Air can get $100+ depending on the specific model, not parted out at all.
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      I've even sold the set of screws for $10. People would rather buy from me than risk non-OEM ones. Yep, all the proprietary parts work out well as long as you don't end up needing them yourself.

by colmvp 6y ago

okamiueru 6y ago

To be fair, and you even bringing it up, apple products is to some degree the fashion equivalent in tech. I recently had to buy a MacOs compatible hardware for the first time in years, and I had really no idea how large the difference has become. Apple products truly are "way of life", more than anything tangible. And when choosing to upgrade components, I really couldn't believe it. It was more than twice the comparable value. In some cases 8 times. In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware?

ponker 6y ago
But there are functional reasons to prefer Apple hardware as well. I use almost exclusively Apple hardware and I own one garment worth more than $30.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
> In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware? The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. The amortized cost of an Apple device in my 15 year + experience with them has always been less than the competitors. Especially if you add my troubleshooting time. Not to mention they’ve been selling iPad Minis for $400 for 7 or 8 years, and they now have an iPhone at $400. Their stuff works, they offer physical stores you can get technical support at, and they seem to be the best offering for privacy conscious users.
- cma 6y ago
  Upgrading an ssd on them costs 3-4x as much as on a normal laptop.
- mthoms 6y ago
  >The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. I love (and almost exclusively use) Apple products for many of the reasons you listed. But I think it's disingenuous to deny that there is an element of Apple's branding and design that is based on fashion. Exhibit A: Laptops and phones getting thinner and thinner at the expense of battery life and other features (headphone jack). Exhibit B: “A computer absolutely can be sexy… yeah, it can” – The glorious ways Jony Ive has described Apple products https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sophisticated-intuitive-imperceptible-and-instantaneous-here-are-the-glorious-ways-jony-ive-has-described-apple-products-3888655 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sophisticated-intuitive-...
  - sukilot 6y ago
    There's a difference between fashionable junk and fashionable quality. The difference is what Jobs and Ive call "design". Spending extra on design isn't the eco disaster that spending on throwaway fashion is.
    - mthoms 6y ago
      You're preaching to the converted. I only disagreed with the notion that there is absolutely no "fashion" component of Apple's products or branding at all. Of course there is.
- rumanator 6y ago
  > The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. Speaking as someone who has spent a fair share of money on Apple products, It really doesn't. Apple is in the business of selling Veblen goods, and unless you are in a niche domain that requires niche software, Apple does not offer anything that makes a significant difference when compared with what ships with other platforms. This is specially true nowadays as the bulk of the work done by anyone is performed through a browser. I mean, Finder works but no one spends $2k on a laptop just because you can open files like a champ. In order to understand the appeal of Apple's product line, all you need to check is the rationale of companies who try to entice potential hires by advertising how they make available flashy Apple hardware to their employees.
hombre_fatal 6y ago
> In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware? Just about all of them, from cars to ski equipment. But that's not what's happening here.
ImaCake 6y ago
I recently got a macbook after having never owned an apple computer (besides a 2nd hand iphone 5). The improvements compared to windows and linux are really impressive. This device does exactly what I want it for; unix native shell support and performance without linux problems. Windows still has it's place, but Macbooks still provide real value.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
There's clearly an appeal of the Apple brand to people. But I think that the appeal comes much more as a form of "general belonging" rather than as a "fad". Usually "fashionable" items (be it clothing or others) are quite noticeably different from year to year. To the untrained eye, my 7 year old mbp doesn't look all that different from a brand new 2020 one. If I open it up in public, I'll look like "a guy who uses apple". People won't know that I'm out of style because I rock an "ancient" laptop. This seems true for iphones, too. The models before the X look somewhat different because of the button, but aside from the cameras being changed, I can't easily tell apart the newer models without a home button.

jariel 6y ago

" I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone." I think you might have missed the fact that what you value is not what other people value. At the 'high end' of fashion, there's an incredible degree of artisanal effort, and FYI most of those items are well made and will last a lifetime. Using 'Apple' - which takes its design and pricing cues literally from the world of fashion and design, is actually an argument in favour of the industry, not against it.

Scoundreller 6y ago

> I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone. Yep, their Total Cost of Ownership can make them very appealing. I’ve made significant contributions towards my MacBook Air upgrades by selling the old one part-for-part.

sukilot 6y ago
Which parts of a Mac laptop to people buy by the part? I congratulate you for your thriftiness and ecological contribution, but surely this is an extremely niche practice.
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  Any piece that you can dissemble, from the top case and keyboard, to the logic board, to the display and bezel. And on older ones, they even had those amazing removable drives and RAM... and remember, since the drives at least were using a slightly proprietary form factor, you either have to buy a used OEM drive or a more expensive 3rd party replacement like the ones from OWC. But even an old broken MacBook Air can get $100+ depending on the specific model, not parted out at all.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    I've even sold the set of screws for $10. People would rather buy from me than risk non-OEM ones. Yep, all the proprietary parts work out well as long as you don't end up needing them yourself.