6 ms·

An interesting relevant precedent for this argument: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23875758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23875758

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
api 6y ago
I think there is enough evidence to suggest the possibility of a human role, but given the fact that a much more virulent virus could easily have been made I think if there was a human role it was an accident. That and the fact that this harmed China both economically and in terms of reputation. Biological warfare is like using a grenade as a handgun. Yes it will harm the enemy, but...
- cryptonector 6y ago
  The fact that it harmed China is not evidence that it wasn't a gain-of-function engineering result. It's evidence that if it was then its leaking was accidental.
medymed 6y ago
While there isn’t too much clamorous mainstream debate about the current strain (SARS-CoV-2), the first SARS escaped the lab several times: “SARS has not re-emerged naturally, but there have been six escapes from virology labs: one each in Singapore and Taiwan, and four separate escapes at the same laboratory in Beijing.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/a-brief-terrifying-history-of-viruses-escaping-from-labs-70s-chinese-pandemic-was-a-lab-mistake/wcm/d66182f3-8080-445f-9bb2-5ae107940d22/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/a-brief-t...
- svd4anything 6y ago
  Exactly so clearly if you even are willing to consider the possibility that SARS-Cov-2 escaped, you are crazy and a right wing nut ok. See how that works.
sradman 6y ago
Relevant July 24th Science Mag interview of Shi Zhengli: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/trump-owes-us-apology-chinese-scientist-center-covid-19-origin-theories-speaks-out https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/trump-owes-us-apolog...
- drocer88 6y ago
  "Shi’s answers were coordinated with public information staffers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, of which WIV is part, and it took her 2 months to prepare them. Evolutionary biologist Kristian Andersen of Scripps Research says he suspects Shi’s answers were “carefully vetted” by the Chinese government."
  - sradman 6y ago
    Regardless of the optics, the key outstanding questions I had were asked and answered in the full PDF document [1]. Opinion and geopolitics are not substitutes for evidence and rational thought. [1] https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/Shi%20Zhengli%20Q%26A.pdf https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/Shi%20Zhengli...
newacct583 6y ago
Good grief. The contention here is that in 1977 the Russians were culturing samples of an existing strain of H1N1 that was known to researchers from an outbreak 26 years previous, but which had dropped out of circulation. And they oopsed, and it got out. That seems not totally improbable, and I'll believe the sequencing results. I don't know how you get from there to (sigh) "Covid is human-engineered", at all. Can you explain how this is relevant at all, except in the way both hypotheses invoke evil foreign laboratories in totalitarian states?
- svd4anything 6y ago
  I’m curious if you have done any research at all into Covid’s origin? For me it would be very surprising to find someone who has now expressing your implied distain for those who are considering the possibility it originated in the Wuhan lab. This isn’t a political topic or at least shouldn’t be.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    No, sorry. You can't float a conspiracy theory, cite an unrelated point as "evidence", and then demand that I be a professional virologist before being allowed to tell you the argument is inapplicable. This doesn't make sense because nothing the Russians did in 1977 (before the invention of PCR!) to culture an existing wild virus tells us anything about what the Chinese were doing in this virology lab.
    - svd4anything 6y ago
      You have no idea what you are talking about. I don’t have time to waste on somebody so arrogant.
Voliokis 6y ago
Every expert I've read about thinks the "evidence" is too flimsy to even consider Covid19 being man-made. That post isn't interesting at all. It's just clickbait fodder that appeals to smart people who like to think they've figured shit out as opposed to the experts, even if it's a field that's totally outside their wheelhouse.
- svd4anything 6y ago
  New account and I’m guessing you just haven’t read too many experts actually. https://youtu.be/pRCzZp1J0v0 https://youtu.be/pRCzZp1J0v0 1:54:50
  - Voliokis 6y ago
    Yes. Plenty of experts. Actual virologists, epidemiologists and other scientists who've spent their lives researching infectious diseases like Covid. What actual experts have you actually read anything from?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

api 6y ago

I think there is enough evidence to suggest the possibility of a human role, but given the fact that a much more virulent virus could easily have been made I think if there was a human role it was an accident. That and the fact that this harmed China both economically and in terms of reputation. Biological warfare is like using a grenade as a handgun. Yes it will harm the enemy, but...

cryptonector 6y ago
The fact that it harmed China is not evidence that it wasn't a gain-of-function engineering result. It's evidence that if it was then its leaking was accidental.

medymed 6y ago

While there isn’t too much clamorous mainstream debate about the current strain (SARS-CoV-2), the first SARS escaped the lab several times: “SARS has not re-emerged naturally, but there have been six escapes from virology labs: one each in Singapore and Taiwan, and four separate escapes at the same laboratory in Beijing.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/a-brief-terrifying-history-of-viruses-escaping-from-labs-70s-chinese-pandemic-was-a-lab-mistake/wcm/d66182f3-8080-445f-9bb2-5ae107940d22/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/a-brief-t...

svd4anything 6y ago
Exactly so clearly if you even are willing to consider the possibility that SARS-Cov-2 escaped, you are crazy and a right wing nut ok. See how that works.

sradman 6y ago

Relevant July 24th Science Mag interview of Shi Zhengli: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/trump-owes-us-apology-chinese-scientist-center-covid-19-origin-theories-speaks-out https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/trump-owes-us-apolog...

drocer88 6y ago
"Shi’s answers were coordinated with public information staffers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, of which WIV is part, and it took her 2 months to prepare them. Evolutionary biologist Kristian Andersen of Scripps Research says he suspects Shi’s answers were “carefully vetted” by the Chinese government."
- sradman 6y ago
  Regardless of the optics, the key outstanding questions I had were asked and answered in the full PDF document [1]. Opinion and geopolitics are not substitutes for evidence and rational thought. [1] https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/Shi%20Zhengli%20Q%26A.pdf https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/Shi%20Zhengli...

newacct583 6y ago

Good grief. The contention here is that in 1977 the Russians were culturing samples of an existing strain of H1N1 that was known to researchers from an outbreak 26 years previous, but which had dropped out of circulation. And they oopsed, and it got out. That seems not totally improbable, and I'll believe the sequencing results. I don't know how you get from there to (sigh) "Covid is human-engineered", at all. Can you explain how this is relevant at all, except in the way both hypotheses invoke evil foreign laboratories in totalitarian states?

svd4anything 6y ago
I’m curious if you have done any research at all into Covid’s origin? For me it would be very surprising to find someone who has now expressing your implied distain for those who are considering the possibility it originated in the Wuhan lab. This isn’t a political topic or at least shouldn’t be.
- newacct583 6y ago
  No, sorry. You can't float a conspiracy theory, cite an unrelated point as "evidence", and then demand that I be a professional virologist before being allowed to tell you the argument is inapplicable. This doesn't make sense because nothing the Russians did in 1977 (before the invention of PCR!) to culture an existing wild virus tells us anything about what the Chinese were doing in this virology lab.
  - svd4anything 6y ago
    You have no idea what you are talking about. I don’t have time to waste on somebody so arrogant.

Voliokis 6y ago

Every expert I've read about thinks the "evidence" is too flimsy to even consider Covid19 being man-made. That post isn't interesting at all. It's just clickbait fodder that appeals to smart people who like to think they've figured shit out as opposed to the experts, even if it's a field that's totally outside their wheelhouse.

svd4anything 6y ago
New account and I’m guessing you just haven’t read too many experts actually. https://youtu.be/pRCzZp1J0v0 https://youtu.be/pRCzZp1J0v0 1:54:50
- Voliokis 6y ago
  Yes. Plenty of experts. Actual virologists, epidemiologists and other scientists who've spent their lives researching infectious diseases like Covid. What actual experts have you actually read anything from?