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It's possible to safely reopen schools provided there is a consistent and regular testing scheme. This isn't doable with PCR tests due to the expense and lab re

by est31 6y ago

It's possible to safely reopen schools provided there is a consistent and regular testing scheme. This isn't doable with PCR tests due to the expense and lab requirements. But in the "This Week in Virology" podcast, virology researchers suggest deploying cheap and rapid testing methods regularly to school children. It's possible to design cheap $1 per test paperstrips that diagnose saliva samples that can be administered by teachers (or even parents). The technology is there, but it's not approved by the FDA because it's not reliable at very low dosages (where the individual isn't probably infectious anyways). But the goal of those tests is to fight the pandemic on a population scale, not to help with diagnosis on the individual scale, so the criteria for the test should be different. Non-N95 masks aren't 100% effective either, but they have an effect that does save lives. With a regular testing scheme in place, reopening schools should be safe enough. See also these resources: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZWuyvBAWWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZWuyvBAWWQ * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDj4Zyq3yOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDj4Zyq3yOA * https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/coronavirus-tests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/coronavirus-tests...

elliekelly 6y ago
> It's possible to design cheap $1 per test paperstrips that diagnose saliva samples that can be administered by teachers (or even parents). The technology is there, but it's not approved by the FDA because it's not reliable at very low dosages (where the individual isn't probably infectious anyways). Is this “possible” in that it exists and the FDA hasn’t acted on it or this is test only theoretical?
- est31 6y ago
  The tests exist in drawers of various companies but they aren't certified, at least back when those videos were released (maybe it's different now). The price depends on the scale the tests are deployed at, that's why I said "possible to design". https://www.stopcovid.science/ https://www.stopcovid.science/ > IMPORTANT NOTE: The STOPCovid kit and protocol should not be used for clinical purposes. Although we have validated the kit on patient samples, this test is not FDA authorized. We welcome researchers working with COVID-19 samples to request a starter kit for further experimental testing.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  It's possible in that it exists, although I don't know to what degree of rigor the tests have been verified. (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/coronavirus-tests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/coronavirus-tests...)
mlthoughts2018 6y ago
I think it’s crazy to see comments like this because there is this presumption that we know what all the edge cases are regarding coronavirus complications. Just see the recent stories of the CDC itself having to shut down offices because the lockdown period allowed an emergence of Legionella. Personally I think it’s way too soon to reopen schools really anywhere, even in cities or countries with mask mandates and positive test rates around 1% or lower. We just absolutely don’t know what the effects will be. We’ve never shut down school buildings for months and reopened them. We’ve never needed to understand the effects on busing, learning rates, transmission via children to adults, effects of children being back in these buildings, etc. etc. It feels so shortsighted to act like the only issues we need to certify are first order, direct properties of the virus itself, like testing, masks, transmission rates, and not being more humble to say, wait a minute, we just totally do not know all the effects or edge cases we need to be worried about.
jonahbenton 6y ago
I agree with the sentiment, and have made similar arguments in the past, that we need to be focusing on contagiousness and rapidity of assessment; that all of the specifics of reopening policies and practices are the result of the failure to develop and deploy this sort of testing regime; that this sort of goal would have been a much, much better target for the $10B (or more) deployed in Operation Warp Speed. But I reject the framing that this is a question of FDA being a bottleneck. That's not it, at all. There is a criminal chaos actor, and larger political group, operating at the federal level in the US. Entire workflows aimed at actual public health and safety have been disrupted and compromised. It will not be possible to move forward until the chaos is removed from the system.

by est31 6y ago

elliekelly 6y ago

> It's possible to design cheap $1 per test paperstrips that diagnose saliva samples that can be administered by teachers (or even parents). The technology is there, but it's not approved by the FDA because it's not reliable at very low dosages (where the individual isn't probably infectious anyways). Is this “possible” in that it exists and the FDA hasn’t acted on it or this is test only theoretical?

est31 6y ago
The tests exist in drawers of various companies but they aren't certified, at least back when those videos were released (maybe it's different now). The price depends on the scale the tests are deployed at, that's why I said "possible to design". https://www.stopcovid.science/ https://www.stopcovid.science/ > IMPORTANT NOTE: The STOPCovid kit and protocol should not be used for clinical purposes. Although we have validated the kit on patient samples, this test is not FDA authorized. We welcome researchers working with COVID-19 samples to request a starter kit for further experimental testing.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
It's possible in that it exists, although I don't know to what degree of rigor the tests have been verified. (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/coronavirus-tests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/coronavirus-tests...)

mlthoughts2018 6y ago

I think it’s crazy to see comments like this because there is this presumption that we know what all the edge cases are regarding coronavirus complications. Just see the recent stories of the CDC itself having to shut down offices because the lockdown period allowed an emergence of Legionella. Personally I think it’s way too soon to reopen schools really anywhere, even in cities or countries with mask mandates and positive test rates around 1% or lower. We just absolutely don’t know what the effects will be. We’ve never shut down school buildings for months and reopened them. We’ve never needed to understand the effects on busing, learning rates, transmission via children to adults, effects of children being back in these buildings, etc. etc. It feels so shortsighted to act like the only issues we need to certify are first order, direct properties of the virus itself, like testing, masks, transmission rates, and not being more humble to say, wait a minute, we just totally do not know all the effects or edge cases we need to be worried about.

jonahbenton 6y ago

I agree with the sentiment, and have made similar arguments in the past, that we need to be focusing on contagiousness and rapidity of assessment; that all of the specifics of reopening policies and practices are the result of the failure to develop and deploy this sort of testing regime; that this sort of goal would have been a much, much better target for the $10B (or more) deployed in Operation Warp Speed. But I reject the framing that this is a question of FDA being a bottleneck. That's not it, at all. There is a criminal chaos actor, and larger political group, operating at the federal level in the US. Entire workflows aimed at actual public health and safety have been disrupted and compromised. It will not be possible to move forward until the chaos is removed from the system.