4 ms·

I really don't like this quote: it reinforces this weird idea of what a "real man" is and that a real man should get drunk from time to time. If someone doesn'

by vore 6y ago

I really don't like this quote: it reinforces this weird idea of what a "real man" is and that a real man should get drunk from time to time. If someone doesn't want to drink or get drunk, so be it: don't lord it over them like they haven't performed some rite of passage, and it's especially disrespectful towards people who have had bad experiences with alcohol.

unethical_ban 6y ago
There is a lot to be said for the effects of drunkenness and the effect on honesty it has.
partyboat1586 6y ago
It applies to both men and women even if the writer didn't intend it.
antepodius 6y ago
The GP proposes a supposedly useful heuristic. If it's useful, people using it will benefit (on average). Do you think people would not benefit from this heuristic, correctly applied? Or are you against the quote because of wider social implications? I.e. do you the the quote is incorrect in a pragmatic sense, or just morally wrong?
- uryga 6y ago
  it's a heuristic that's biased against people who don't drink for unrelated reasons. i'd say that's not-great both pragmatically and morally
- ant6n 6y ago
  It encourages a chauvinistic, macho culture. Those who don’t fit into that should not be trusted, that is, excluded (e.g. women, Muslims, etc.). That’s actively harmful.
rocqua 6y ago
Does it? It reinforces the idea that drinking is 'normal' and 'fun'. It suggests that people who do not drink must have reasons not to do such an "obviously good" (scare quotes) thing. Those aren't good things. But I don't think it says much horrible about what a 'real man' is. Ignoring alcohol, it says don't be too righteous, and people who don't trust themselves aren't trustworthy. And those two messages, I kinda like. Whilst I don't like the message "people who don't drink are too righteous". I do like really the message "People who are (too) righteous are bad".

by vore 6y ago

unethical_ban 6y ago

There is a lot to be said for the effects of drunkenness and the effect on honesty it has.

partyboat1586 6y ago

It applies to both men and women even if the writer didn't intend it.

antepodius 6y ago

The GP proposes a supposedly useful heuristic. If it's useful, people using it will benefit (on average). Do you think people would not benefit from this heuristic, correctly applied? Or are you against the quote because of wider social implications? I.e. do you the the quote is incorrect in a pragmatic sense, or just morally wrong?

uryga 6y ago
it's a heuristic that's biased against people who don't drink for unrelated reasons. i'd say that's not-great both pragmatically and morally
ant6n 6y ago
It encourages a chauvinistic, macho culture. Those who don’t fit into that should not be trusted, that is, excluded (e.g. women, Muslims, etc.). That’s actively harmful.

rocqua 6y ago

Does it? It reinforces the idea that drinking is 'normal' and 'fun'. It suggests that people who do not drink must have reasons not to do such an "obviously good" (scare quotes) thing. Those aren't good things. But I don't think it says much horrible about what a 'real man' is. Ignoring alcohol, it says don't be too righteous, and people who don't trust themselves aren't trustworthy. And those two messages, I kinda like. Whilst I don't like the message "people who don't drink are too righteous". I do like really the message "People who are (too) righteous are bad".