3 ms·

The US is the recipient of all of the world's top talent. Why would any extremely experienced developer willingly choose to earn 1/6th of the money in the Europ

by 0xy 6y ago

The US is the recipient of all of the world's top talent. Why would any extremely experienced developer willingly choose to earn 1/6th of the money in the Europe or less unless forced to? Of course, top talent does exist in Europe but there's way less than the US.

kabes 6y ago
I moved back to Europe from SV for a lesser paying job (not 1/6th though) because I thoroughly hated the bay area / US. I got a way better quality of life here (Belgium).
fsloth 6y ago
Because people like other things than just money? Once you have the safety network of a european state, have upper middle class income, there is very little to gain in quality of life by increase in pay.
naavis 6y ago
Because they want to live in Europe?
- 0xy 6y ago
  My comment never suggested there are none who don't live there by choice. Of course, by choosing Europe, you surrender literally millions of dollars (in compounding retirement investments over decades). I specifically mean EU countries by the way, Switzerland and London are the only exceptions -- and even then the US is better.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    > you surrender literally millions of dollars You don't. You spend those "millions" of dollars on ridiculously expensive medical care, on ridiculously expensive education, on car ownership, on... And in return you get worse infrastructure, worse medical care, worse ecology etc.
    - 0xy 6y ago
      Education is a choice in our industry. I'm self taught and I'm paid the same as colleagues with PhDs. As for medical care, all half decent tech employers provide comprehensive healthcare coverage. I don't know what you've been reading, but unless healthcare costs $200,000 a year (it doesn't cost 1/10th of that), you're better off in the US. As for "worse infrastructure", you'll have to be specific. There's crumbling infrastructure all over the US and Europe. Worse medical care is also a stretch. In fact, in some areas (heart attacks and strokes, for example) the US is a world leader. [1] I'll remind you that new grads in the US are often paid substantially more than senior level developers in the EU. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care-costs-so-much-more-in-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care...
      - eurosenior 6y ago
        > I'll remind you that new grads in the US are often paid substantially more than senior level developers in the EU. Yeah, ain't that right. I've been programming for 20 years, worked as a lead developer/architect and have usually been among the most highly compensated technical people in companies I've worked for. And yet I have never seen anything close to the kind of money fresh grads get at FAANG. On the other hand, if I landed a job paying 300k-400k USD a year, I'd probably just retire after 4-5 years.
benhurmarcel 6y ago
> or less unless forced to? Most are basically forced to. We're not US citizens, we don't have a right to work in the US.

by 0xy 6y ago

kabes 6y ago

I moved back to Europe from SV for a lesser paying job (not 1/6th though) because I thoroughly hated the bay area / US. I got a way better quality of life here (Belgium).

fsloth 6y ago

Because people like other things than just money? Once you have the safety network of a european state, have upper middle class income, there is very little to gain in quality of life by increase in pay.

naavis 6y ago

Because they want to live in Europe?

0xy 6y ago
My comment never suggested there are none who don't live there by choice. Of course, by choosing Europe, you surrender literally millions of dollars (in compounding retirement investments over decades). I specifically mean EU countries by the way, Switzerland and London are the only exceptions -- and even then the US is better.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > you surrender literally millions of dollars You don't. You spend those "millions" of dollars on ridiculously expensive medical care, on ridiculously expensive education, on car ownership, on... And in return you get worse infrastructure, worse medical care, worse ecology etc.
  - 0xy 6y ago
    Education is a choice in our industry. I'm self taught and I'm paid the same as colleagues with PhDs. As for medical care, all half decent tech employers provide comprehensive healthcare coverage. I don't know what you've been reading, but unless healthcare costs $200,000 a year (it doesn't cost 1/10th of that), you're better off in the US. As for "worse infrastructure", you'll have to be specific. There's crumbling infrastructure all over the US and Europe. Worse medical care is also a stretch. In fact, in some areas (heart attacks and strokes, for example) the US is a world leader. [1] I'll remind you that new grads in the US are often paid substantially more than senior level developers in the EU. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care-costs-so-much-more-in-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care...
    - eurosenior 6y ago
      > I'll remind you that new grads in the US are often paid substantially more than senior level developers in the EU. Yeah, ain't that right. I've been programming for 20 years, worked as a lead developer/architect and have usually been among the most highly compensated technical people in companies I've worked for. And yet I have never seen anything close to the kind of money fresh grads get at FAANG. On the other hand, if I landed a job paying 300k-400k USD a year, I'd probably just retire after 4-5 years.

benhurmarcel 6y ago

> or less unless forced to? Most are basically forced to. We're not US citizens, we don't have a right to work in the US.