7 ms·

I made a mechanical keyboard with 3D-printed switches

188 points by jstanley 6y ago

ftk_ 6y ago
Good job! However, according to the wiring seems like it wouldn't be able to register something like ctrl+shift+z which is used as redo hotkey almost everywhere.
- itcrowd 6y ago
  Use Ctrl+y instead ;)
- StavrosK 6y ago
  The good thing about QMK is that you can remap anything you want to anything you want. For a hobby project, I don't know how much it would matter anyway.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- kps 6y ago
  Looks fine to me. Did you miss the diodes?
libraryatnight 6y ago
I love seeing stuff like this, really cool - thanks for sharing.
Scene_Cast2 6y ago
With something like this, one could merge the switches with the keycaps for a potentially lower overall profile.
kanobo 6y ago
Cool project, it's unfortunate that it's unpleasant to type on - what do you think the estimated lifespan of daily use be before it breaks down?
- StavrosK 6y ago
  IIRC in his tests the later versions of the switches lasted at least 100k presses, so quite a long time.
mef51 6y ago
> "I toyed with the idea of getting a PCB made up that I could directly solder my switches to. It would certainly have made it easier to put the keyboard together, but I thought outsourcing the manufacturing of a PCB kind of takes the edge off making your own switches..." Totally! There are ways to make your own PCBs using presensitized boards and exposing it to light ([1] for example) to keep it DIY [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAer7a3tU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAer7a3tU4
- pronoiac 6y ago
  Also, I know people have used CNC to mill a PCB.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Or a 3D printer: https://www.stavros.io/posts/make-pcbs-at-home/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/make-pcbs-at-home/
enchiridion 6y ago
Awesome! When I saw the switches a little while ago I was hoping you'd make a full keyboard.
ChuckMcM 6y ago
This is a neat project. I printed some switches out when I saw his post on Twitter I believe. It dovetailed into work that I've been doing to figure out replacement switches, buttons, and sliders using DIY 3D techniques vs sourcing through NKK or what not. Primarily for cost since any custom switch design is like $25K for the first 100. As others have pointed out, these keys feel "mushy". And I agree with that. It comes down to the spring constant of printed springs. It is really really hard to make it consistent from print to print. Fortunately springs are actually super cheap and you can make those yourself pretty easily too if you want. So if you back off the "everything has to be printed" mantra just a bit. You can make a more consistent feeling switch. (and less deep which has some benefit on front panel stuff)
- skybrian 6y ago
  Neat! Have you actually done that? You wouldn't happen to have a design to use as a starting point?
  - ChuckMcM 6y ago
    Haven't published my progress so far. I'm ChuckMcM on Thingiverse and that is where I've been putting my designs so it will show up there eventually.
mypalmike 6y ago
It is insane to print your own switches when you can buy extremely high quality ones for 25 cents a piece. And that level of insanity makes this a great project.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Next project idea: Pneumatic keyboard! Kind of surprisingly, doing a quick search for that term online shows up a 1960's patent for one: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3034628A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US3034628A/en The advent of the fluid amplifier has led to the development of data processing and control systems wherein the processing and control functions are carried out by elements which operate entirely on fluid principles. That is, these systems contain no moving parts other than the working fluid which flows through the system. Therefore, an object of the present invention is to provide a pure fluid system for inserting information into a fluid data processing device. If anyone wants a challenge... ;)
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    Hydraulic would probably be easier with the limited stroke.
    - justinclift 6y ago
      That also sounds like a potentially "fun and worthy challenge" for some people. :)
- jacobolus 6y ago
  The part I don’t understand is: > Apart from the fact that the keyboard is quite unpleasant to type on, I'd say this project was mostly a success. [...] I think my mistake was optimising for reliability instead of feel. Existing switches are extremely reliable (if their reliability isn’t satisfactory, find some used Alps switches from the late 1980s, or some Honeywell switches, or ...), so the only reasons I can think of to make your own are to fit in some unusual spatial condition where an off-the-shelf switch won’t work, or for a better feel.
quora 6y ago
A guy in the mechkeys discord posted a clip of his 3D printed mech switches yesterday as well. I believe he is using reed switches instead of a 3d printed leaf but its pretty cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwRfQ3p_jFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwRfQ3p_jFo
- bllguo 6y ago
  yes, this is linked in the OP! It's fantastically interesting. Uses magnets instead of springs
literallycancer 6y ago
Looks cool but how do you clean it? The grooves will get filled up with dirt in a month or two.
tutfbhuf 6y ago
> Spending some time typing on my homemade switches has given me a newfound appreciation for just how good Cherry MX switches are. I know at least one mech keyboard enthusiast from reddit who went from cherrry mx brown -> clears -> ergo clears -> gateron brown -> zealios v1 -> zealios v2 -> custom switches -> cherrry mx brown making a full cycle.
- skocznymroczny 6y ago
  I went scissor switch -> reds -> blues -> low profile blues -> low profile browns -> butterfly -> scissor switch. My favourite of them all is probably butterfly, but obviously there's no equivalent of that for desktop keyboards, so I am running a scissor switch keyboard now. However, I have very fond memories of the low profile blue switch.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  I went Blue > Brown > Clear > Blue > Silent Red (on order, waiting for delivery) I went full circle back to blues, and blue are still my favorite... but the rest of my family does not share my enjoyment of them. I will go back to blues after they go back to work/school. :)
- PhantomGremlin 6y ago
  I assume you're talking about the "feel" of Cherry switches. Which many people really like. As for reliability, I don't know how readily available they are any more, but IMO the true "gold standard" is Hall Effect, because it's contactless. Hall effect keyboards used to be quite common 45 years ago in heavy data entry applications (e.g. people who spent their days entering typewritten manuscripts submitted by authors, years before every writer used a word processor). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Hall-effect_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Hall-effec... Contactless is great because there's no mechanical key bounce or contact wear. Some quick googling showed that Cherry (at least once upon a time) made hall effect keyswitches. But they're probably too expensive for most applications.
  - bllguo 6y ago
ahelwer 6y ago
Custom-built keyboards are very cool, but I will never understand putting all this love into a non-ergonomic design. Typing on something with no separation or tilt murders your wrists! Mechanical keyboard enthusiasts will spend ages refining & debating every possible aspect of the individual switches, then lay them out on a flat slab like it's a giveaway Dell keyboard from 2006. At least the design he chose avoids a number pad, which either makes you situate the keyboard more to one side of your body or pushes the mouse too far out to use comfortably.
umvi 6y ago
This is pretty sweet. One thing I've always wanted to do is embed a hardware keylogger into the keyboard itself (optionally with bluetooth or some other radio - so I can retrieve contents of logs remotely). Seems like with one of those you could even defeat 2FA (if you were a black hat). Swap out the victim's keyboard with the one with the embedded radio keylogger. Auto-detect when they are logging into something with 2FA. Put the characters they type into the web form and submit faster than they do.
TheDesolate0 6y ago
huzzah
_def 6y ago
Oooh I'm totally gonna build this! Thanks so much
will-mortar 6y ago
James - first of all, well done! you say it’s not a ‘good’ keyboard, what is your definition of good?

188 points by jstanley 6y ago

ftk_ 6y ago

Good job! However, according to the wiring seems like it wouldn't be able to register something like ctrl+shift+z which is used as redo hotkey almost everywhere.

itcrowd 6y ago
Use Ctrl+y instead ;)
StavrosK 6y ago
The good thing about QMK is that you can remap anything you want to anything you want. For a hobby project, I don't know how much it would matter anyway.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
kps 6y ago
Looks fine to me. Did you miss the diodes?

libraryatnight 6y ago

I love seeing stuff like this, really cool - thanks for sharing.

Scene_Cast2 6y ago

With something like this, one could merge the switches with the keycaps for a potentially lower overall profile.

kanobo 6y ago

Cool project, it's unfortunate that it's unpleasant to type on - what do you think the estimated lifespan of daily use be before it breaks down?

StavrosK 6y ago
IIRC in his tests the later versions of the switches lasted at least 100k presses, so quite a long time.

mef51 6y ago

> "I toyed with the idea of getting a PCB made up that I could directly solder my switches to. It would certainly have made it easier to put the keyboard together, but I thought outsourcing the manufacturing of a PCB kind of takes the edge off making your own switches..." Totally! There are ways to make your own PCBs using presensitized boards and exposing it to light ([1] for example) to keep it DIY [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAer7a3tU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAer7a3tU4

pronoiac 6y ago
Also, I know people have used CNC to mill a PCB.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  Or a 3D printer: https://www.stavros.io/posts/make-pcbs-at-home/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/make-pcbs-at-home/

enchiridion 6y ago

Awesome! When I saw the switches a little while ago I was hoping you'd make a full keyboard.

ChuckMcM 6y ago

This is a neat project. I printed some switches out when I saw his post on Twitter I believe. It dovetailed into work that I've been doing to figure out replacement switches, buttons, and sliders using DIY 3D techniques vs sourcing through NKK or what not. Primarily for cost since any custom switch design is like $25K for the first 100. As others have pointed out, these keys feel "mushy". And I agree with that. It comes down to the spring constant of printed springs. It is really really hard to make it consistent from print to print. Fortunately springs are actually super cheap and you can make those yourself pretty easily too if you want. So if you back off the "everything has to be printed" mantra just a bit. You can make a more consistent feeling switch. (and less deep which has some benefit on front panel stuff)

skybrian 6y ago
Neat! Have you actually done that? You wouldn't happen to have a design to use as a starting point?
- ChuckMcM 6y ago
  Haven't published my progress so far. I'm ChuckMcM on Thingiverse and that is where I've been putting my designs so it will show up there eventually.

mypalmike 6y ago

It is insane to print your own switches when you can buy extremely high quality ones for 25 cents a piece. And that level of insanity makes this a great project.

justinclift 6y ago
Next project idea: Pneumatic keyboard! Kind of surprisingly, doing a quick search for that term online shows up a 1960's patent for one: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3034628A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US3034628A/en The advent of the fluid amplifier has led to the development of data processing and control systems wherein the processing and control functions are carried out by elements which operate entirely on fluid principles. That is, these systems contain no moving parts other than the working fluid which flows through the system. Therefore, an object of the present invention is to provide a pure fluid system for inserting information into a fluid data processing device. If anyone wants a challenge... ;)
- rightbyte 6y ago
  Hydraulic would probably be easier with the limited stroke.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    That also sounds like a potentially "fun and worthy challenge" for some people. :)
jacobolus 6y ago
The part I don’t understand is: > Apart from the fact that the keyboard is quite unpleasant to type on, I'd say this project was mostly a success. [...] I think my mistake was optimising for reliability instead of feel. Existing switches are extremely reliable (if their reliability isn’t satisfactory, find some used Alps switches from the late 1980s, or some Honeywell switches, or ...), so the only reasons I can think of to make your own are to fit in some unusual spatial condition where an off-the-shelf switch won’t work, or for a better feel.

quora 6y ago

A guy in the mechkeys discord posted a clip of his 3D printed mech switches yesterday as well. I believe he is using reed switches instead of a 3d printed leaf but its pretty cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwRfQ3p_jFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwRfQ3p_jFo

bllguo 6y ago
yes, this is linked in the OP! It's fantastically interesting. Uses magnets instead of springs

literallycancer 6y ago

Looks cool but how do you clean it? The grooves will get filled up with dirt in a month or two.

tutfbhuf 6y ago

> Spending some time typing on my homemade switches has given me a newfound appreciation for just how good Cherry MX switches are. I know at least one mech keyboard enthusiast from reddit who went from cherrry mx brown -> clears -> ergo clears -> gateron brown -> zealios v1 -> zealios v2 -> custom switches -> cherrry mx brown making a full cycle.

skocznymroczny 6y ago
I went scissor switch -> reds -> blues -> low profile blues -> low profile browns -> butterfly -> scissor switch. My favourite of them all is probably butterfly, but obviously there's no equivalent of that for desktop keyboards, so I am running a scissor switch keyboard now. However, I have very fond memories of the low profile blue switch.
bonestamp2 6y ago
I went Blue > Brown > Clear > Blue > Silent Red (on order, waiting for delivery) I went full circle back to blues, and blue are still my favorite... but the rest of my family does not share my enjoyment of them. I will go back to blues after they go back to work/school. :)
PhantomGremlin 6y ago
I assume you're talking about the "feel" of Cherry switches. Which many people really like. As for reliability, I don't know how readily available they are any more, but IMO the true "gold standard" is Hall Effect, because it's contactless. Hall effect keyboards used to be quite common 45 years ago in heavy data entry applications (e.g. people who spent their days entering typewritten manuscripts submitted by authors, years before every writer used a word processor). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Hall-effect_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Hall-effec... Contactless is great because there's no mechanical key bounce or contact wear. Some quick googling showed that Cherry (at least once upon a time) made hall effect keyswitches. But they're probably too expensive for most applications.
- bllguo 6y ago

ahelwer 6y ago

Custom-built keyboards are very cool, but I will never understand putting all this love into a non-ergonomic design. Typing on something with no separation or tilt murders your wrists! Mechanical keyboard enthusiasts will spend ages refining & debating every possible aspect of the individual switches, then lay them out on a flat slab like it's a giveaway Dell keyboard from 2006. At least the design he chose avoids a number pad, which either makes you situate the keyboard more to one side of your body or pushes the mouse too far out to use comfortably.

umvi 6y ago

This is pretty sweet. One thing I've always wanted to do is embed a hardware keylogger into the keyboard itself (optionally with bluetooth or some other radio - so I can retrieve contents of logs remotely). Seems like with one of those you could even defeat 2FA (if you were a black hat). Swap out the victim's keyboard with the one with the embedded radio keylogger. Auto-detect when they are logging into something with 2FA. Put the characters they type into the web form and submit faster than they do.

TheDesolate0 6y ago

huzzah

_def 6y ago

Oooh I'm totally gonna build this! Thanks so much

will-mortar 6y ago

James - first of all, well done! you say it’s not a ‘good’ keyboard, what is your definition of good?