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I wouldn't regard Safari as evergreen, and it's also probably the most behind* (or they just outright refuse to implement) some APIs * of the modern browsers.

I wouldn't regard Safari as evergreen, and it's also probably the most behind* (or they just outright refuse to implement) some APIs * of the modern browsers. edit: I'd like to clarify the reason I don't regard Safari as evergreen is it's tied to iOS versions. Enough users still use iOS 12 and 11

Spivak 6y ago
I really don't understand the hate that Safari gets for this. What's even the point of having different browsers if people get mad at any differences between them? Chrome, but made by four different companies is kinda the illusion of choice and competition.
- oblio 6y ago
  Aren't they supposed to implement the same standard? Not much of a standard if people don't implement it.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    The standard just says if you're going to have $feature, this is what it has to look like. A web browser on a platform with no concept of notifications can still be standards compliant. A browser with no support for DRM can still be standards compliant too.
    - cglong 6y ago
      Unfortunately Safari on macOS does have notifications, just not ones that adhere to the spec :/
  - MBCook 6y ago
    Not much of a standard if Chrome invents it and everyone just starts complaining non-Chrome don’t adopt the ‘standard’ long before it’s official.
    - capableweb 6y ago
      This is literally how all standards in browsers are being initially created. Someone has an idea, implements it eventually in a browser, thinks it´s so good, they want other browsers to support it too so they make a proposal. If others like it, they´ll support it and try to find faults. Eventually it gets either rejected, or approved and others follow suit (most of the times). Although, some browser teams, like Google Chrome, has apparently the ability of just shoving Google people in the standards process so they can fast-track stuff. But in the end, it's _supposed_ to work in the fashion where one browser starts implementing something, then others.
      - MBCook 6y ago
        I’m wasn’t complaining about Chrome testing something first. I agree, that’s how it is supposed to happen. I’m complaining about the armies of web developers who seem to think Chrome IS the standard and anything Chrome has that other browsers don’t mean the other browser is ‘The new IE’ and ‘holding the web back’ even if it just came out last week.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    A standard designed by people from Google, discussed exclusively by people from Google, fast tracked into Chrome by people from Google and then released in Chrome with utter disregard to any issues raised by other browser vendors does not a standard make. Unfortunately, since most web devs develop under Chrome (and rarely if ever test under other browsers) this perpetuates the myth that "Safari is holding the web back" or "Firefox is slow and doesn't implement standards fast enough". Here's total Web Apis counts in different web browsers: [1] - Chrome: 7106 - Firefox: 6376 - Safari: 6130 Of them: browser-specific APIs that developers cannot reasonably assume are a part of the web platform: - Chrome: 949 - Firefox: 507 - Safari: 546 And in 2017-2018 Chrome removed over a thousand APIs that were only implemented in Chrome, but were assumed to be standards" [1] And if you look at the omissions tab, you'll see that Firefox and Safari and not too far behind Chrome. But they are very wary of implementing quite a few standards just because Chrome fast tracked them (Constructible Stylesheets? Safari flat out refused to implement them. Signed HTTP exchanges? Mozilla considers them harmful and will not implement etc. etc.) [1] https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence
- jdofaz 6y ago
  Because on iOS you aren't allowed to use anything else

Spivak 6y ago

I really don't understand the hate that Safari gets for this. What's even the point of having different browsers if people get mad at any differences between them? Chrome, but made by four different companies is kinda the illusion of choice and competition.

oblio 6y ago
Aren't they supposed to implement the same standard? Not much of a standard if people don't implement it.
- Spivak 6y ago
  The standard just says if you're going to have $feature, this is what it has to look like. A web browser on a platform with no concept of notifications can still be standards compliant. A browser with no support for DRM can still be standards compliant too.
  - cglong 6y ago
    Unfortunately Safari on macOS does have notifications, just not ones that adhere to the spec :/
- MBCook 6y ago
  Not much of a standard if Chrome invents it and everyone just starts complaining non-Chrome don’t adopt the ‘standard’ long before it’s official.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    This is literally how all standards in browsers are being initially created. Someone has an idea, implements it eventually in a browser, thinks it´s so good, they want other browsers to support it too so they make a proposal. If others like it, they´ll support it and try to find faults. Eventually it gets either rejected, or approved and others follow suit (most of the times). Although, some browser teams, like Google Chrome, has apparently the ability of just shoving Google people in the standards process so they can fast-track stuff. But in the end, it's _supposed_ to work in the fashion where one browser starts implementing something, then others.
    - MBCook 6y ago
      I’m wasn’t complaining about Chrome testing something first. I agree, that’s how it is supposed to happen. I’m complaining about the armies of web developers who seem to think Chrome IS the standard and anything Chrome has that other browsers don’t mean the other browser is ‘The new IE’ and ‘holding the web back’ even if it just came out last week.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  A standard designed by people from Google, discussed exclusively by people from Google, fast tracked into Chrome by people from Google and then released in Chrome with utter disregard to any issues raised by other browser vendors does not a standard make. Unfortunately, since most web devs develop under Chrome (and rarely if ever test under other browsers) this perpetuates the myth that "Safari is holding the web back" or "Firefox is slow and doesn't implement standards fast enough". Here's total Web Apis counts in different web browsers: [1] - Chrome: 7106 - Firefox: 6376 - Safari: 6130 Of them: browser-specific APIs that developers cannot reasonably assume are a part of the web platform: - Chrome: 949 - Firefox: 507 - Safari: 546 And in 2017-2018 Chrome removed over a thousand APIs that were only implemented in Chrome, but were assumed to be standards" [1] And if you look at the omissions tab, you'll see that Firefox and Safari and not too far behind Chrome. But they are very wary of implementing quite a few standards just because Chrome fast tracked them (Constructible Stylesheets? Safari flat out refused to implement them. Signed HTTP exchanges? Mozilla considers them harmful and will not implement etc. etc.) [1] https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence
jdofaz 6y ago
Because on iOS you aren't allowed to use anything else