4 ms·

> Evidence, as well as basic observation points to people recovering very well from the disease For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is

> Evidence, as well as basic observation points to people recovering very well from the disease For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet.

logicchains 6y ago
>For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet. Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? Given how the immune system works it doesn't make sense that someone's body is good enough at fighting the virus that it only displays mild cold-like symptoms yet weak enough that it somehow lets the virus cause serious long-term damage.
- numbsafari 6y ago
  I have a cyst on my spine. It doesn't keep me from walking. But, many days, it keeps me awake and makes it very difficult for me to do physical tasks that I was once able to accomplish with ease. I used to be able to squat 545lbs. I can hardly lift 100 lbs without assistance. If I do a moderate day of yard work, I am unable to take a shower upright. All because of a pea-sized cyst. Just because something isn't fatal, or debilitating to the point of it putting you in a wheel chair, doesn't mean it can't have a massive impact on not only your quality of life and your relationships, it can keep you from being able to adequately care for yourself or be a productive member of society.
  - just-juan-post 6y ago
    Ok so what is your lockdown plan then? We lock down until what condition is met?
    - mmmeff 6y ago
      Just fuck off
- acqq 6y ago
  > Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? I've read that the low fatality rate of Singapore is due to mostly foreign, younger, healthy workers being the "cases" who were infected. Assuming that, the statistics of Singapore is not in any way inconsistent with what is observed in other locations. We already know that the older people have an order of magnitude higher probabilities to die while infected, or even two orders of magnitude when old enough. Note that the "fatality rate" in this context then says absolutely nothing about the permanent damages of the people's organs. The fatality rate is just "who promptly died after being detected positive." We don't know how many of Singapore cases remained with worse health after being infected, or even if some died or will die later, after being declared virus-free, and it's not probable that we'll know, them being the foreign workers. Therefore, it seems that citing Singapore in this way is irrelevant while talking about the known and reported cases of people with damaged health in, for example, the U.S. We need other statistics.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Depends on what you consider significant. Even influenza itself is traumatic enough that the risk of long-term effects is part of public health planning; flu vaccines aren't considered so critical because of the "lie in bed eating chicken soup all week" cases. (Although I don't fully endorse everything upthread, and I'd agree there's not much risk of hidden damage where patients we think are recovered will actually end up being disabled.) The first study I could find from a quick search: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17497-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17497-6
- slowmovintarget 6y ago
  Weak symptoms from COVID-19 are likely due to the ~ 30% match with the Mumps vaccine. People who've had their MMR shots do better, on average against SARS-COV-2 than those (like older people) who haven't had it. When I was fifteen, I had mononucleosis. For about three months, I spent large portions of my time in bed. I didn't go outside, except to go to the doctor for checkups, and to the library on the way back from the doctor's office. The next five years were awful. I still had bouts of extreme fatigue, muscle soreness, joint pain, inability to concentrate... This lasted for 5 years. (I graduated a semester late from high school. The kids used to joke about my absences that I was working on my time machine and hadn't quite perfected it yet.) At the time, the name "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" was new coinage. There are other names for it now. Every so often, I'll get an enlarged spleen, fevers (100+ degrees in the evenings), pain, fatigue. It usually happens when I've been under significant stress (new child, moving, new job, the pandemic). Blood work shows very little, and the symptoms go away after a few weeks. There's so much we still don't know about how viruses affect us as individuals over the long term. Let alone how we as a species adapt to them. Take Multiple Sclerosis, for example. It turns out that we carry MS in our genes, likely as a adaptation to a virus we once had trouble with. Every so often, something happens to some of us, and the adopted sequence of what was likely an external virus gets activated. That is, MS is an endogenous retrovirus. Over the longer term, what will SARS-COV-2 do to us? It's really hard to say. I'm going to do my best to avoid it. I have enough trouble dealing with whatever it is I already have. For those people blathering about "rights", those freedoms you enjoy require corresponding measures of personal responsibility. You have a right not to where a mask, but you have the corresponding responsibility to not be so selfish in enclosed public spaces. If I ask you to wear a mask, I'm not trying to be your nanny attempting to force you into doing what's good for you. It isn't for your protection, it's for mine.

> Evidence, as well as basic observation points to people recovering very well from the disease For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet.

logicchains 6y ago

>For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet. Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? Given how the immune system works it doesn't make sense that someone's body is good enough at fighting the virus that it only displays mild cold-like symptoms yet weak enough that it somehow lets the virus cause serious long-term damage.

numbsafari 6y ago
I have a cyst on my spine. It doesn't keep me from walking. But, many days, it keeps me awake and makes it very difficult for me to do physical tasks that I was once able to accomplish with ease. I used to be able to squat 545lbs. I can hardly lift 100 lbs without assistance. If I do a moderate day of yard work, I am unable to take a shower upright. All because of a pea-sized cyst. Just because something isn't fatal, or debilitating to the point of it putting you in a wheel chair, doesn't mean it can't have a massive impact on not only your quality of life and your relationships, it can keep you from being able to adequately care for yourself or be a productive member of society.
- just-juan-post 6y ago
  Ok so what is your lockdown plan then? We lock down until what condition is met?
  - mmmeff 6y ago
    Just fuck off
acqq 6y ago
> Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? I've read that the low fatality rate of Singapore is due to mostly foreign, younger, healthy workers being the "cases" who were infected. Assuming that, the statistics of Singapore is not in any way inconsistent with what is observed in other locations. We already know that the older people have an order of magnitude higher probabilities to die while infected, or even two orders of magnitude when old enough. Note that the "fatality rate" in this context then says absolutely nothing about the permanent damages of the people's organs. The fatality rate is just "who promptly died after being detected positive." We don't know how many of Singapore cases remained with worse health after being infected, or even if some died or will die later, after being declared virus-free, and it's not probable that we'll know, them being the foreign workers. Therefore, it seems that citing Singapore in this way is irrelevant while talking about the known and reported cases of people with damaged health in, for example, the U.S. We need other statistics.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Depends on what you consider significant. Even influenza itself is traumatic enough that the risk of long-term effects is part of public health planning; flu vaccines aren't considered so critical because of the "lie in bed eating chicken soup all week" cases. (Although I don't fully endorse everything upthread, and I'd agree there's not much risk of hidden damage where patients we think are recovered will actually end up being disabled.) The first study I could find from a quick search: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17497-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17497-6
slowmovintarget 6y ago
Weak symptoms from COVID-19 are likely due to the ~ 30% match with the Mumps vaccine. People who've had their MMR shots do better, on average against SARS-COV-2 than those (like older people) who haven't had it. When I was fifteen, I had mononucleosis. For about three months, I spent large portions of my time in bed. I didn't go outside, except to go to the doctor for checkups, and to the library on the way back from the doctor's office. The next five years were awful. I still had bouts of extreme fatigue, muscle soreness, joint pain, inability to concentrate... This lasted for 5 years. (I graduated a semester late from high school. The kids used to joke about my absences that I was working on my time machine and hadn't quite perfected it yet.) At the time, the name "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" was new coinage. There are other names for it now. Every so often, I'll get an enlarged spleen, fevers (100+ degrees in the evenings), pain, fatigue. It usually happens when I've been under significant stress (new child, moving, new job, the pandemic). Blood work shows very little, and the symptoms go away after a few weeks. There's so much we still don't know about how viruses affect us as individuals over the long term. Let alone how we as a species adapt to them. Take Multiple Sclerosis, for example. It turns out that we carry MS in our genes, likely as a adaptation to a virus we once had trouble with. Every so often, something happens to some of us, and the adopted sequence of what was likely an external virus gets activated. That is, MS is an endogenous retrovirus. Over the longer term, what will SARS-COV-2 do to us? It's really hard to say. I'm going to do my best to avoid it. I have enough trouble dealing with whatever it is I already have. For those people blathering about "rights", those freedoms you enjoy require corresponding measures of personal responsibility. You have a right not to where a mask, but you have the corresponding responsibility to not be so selfish in enclosed public spaces. If I ask you to wear a mask, I'm not trying to be your nanny attempting to force you into doing what's good for you. It isn't for your protection, it's for mine.