5 ms·

Vast majority of people recover just fine and what ever neurological structural changes are caused by the virus appear to have very little affect. The article

by rpiguy 6y ago

Vast majority of people recover just fine and what ever neurological structural changes are caused by the virus appear to have very little affect. The article claims that both non-severe and severe patients get the same damage, meaning that globally we have at minimum 10 million people with this damage, probably many time more since most cases aren't tested. But the article does very little to study if these changes actually effect people and for how long. Evidence, as well as basic observation points to people recovering very well from the disease (we have over 4 million cases in the US but the number of people with crippling long-term effects is minimal, otherwise we'd be able to observe a massive group of impaired individuals). The article does very little to illustrate that impact on people. For example, people who lose their sense of smell, which is listed as symptom in this Chinese study get it back and they get it back faster than when they lose the sense of smell with other viruses: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/08/thousands-covid-19-patients-lost-sense-smell-will-get-back-cvd/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/08/thousands...

aphextron 6y ago
> Evidence, as well as basic observation points to people recovering very well from the disease For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet.
- logicchains 6y ago
  >For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet. Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? Given how the immune system works it doesn't make sense that someone's body is good enough at fighting the virus that it only displays mild cold-like symptoms yet weak enough that it somehow lets the virus cause serious long-term damage.
  - numbsafari 6y ago
    I have a cyst on my spine. It doesn't keep me from walking. But, many days, it keeps me awake and makes it very difficult for me to do physical tasks that I was once able to accomplish with ease. I used to be able to squat 545lbs. I can hardly lift 100 lbs without assistance. If I do a moderate day of yard work, I am unable to take a shower upright. All because of a pea-sized cyst. Just because something isn't fatal, or debilitating to the point of it putting you in a wheel chair, doesn't mean it can't have a massive impact on not only your quality of life and your relationships, it can keep you from being able to adequately care for yourself or be a productive member of society.
    - just-juan-post 6y ago
      Ok so what is your lockdown plan then? We lock down until what condition is met?
      - mmmeff 6y ago
        Just fuck off
  - acqq 6y ago
    > Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? I've read that the low fatality rate of Singapore is due to mostly foreign, younger, healthy workers being the "cases" who were infected. Assuming that, the statistics of Singapore is not in any way inconsistent with what is observed in other locations. We already know that the older people have an order of magnitude higher probabilities to die while infected, or even two orders of magnitude when old enough. Note that the "fatality rate" in this context then says absolutely nothing about the permanent damages of the people's organs. The fatality rate is just "who promptly died after being detected positive." We don't know how many of Singapore cases remained with worse health after being infected, or even if some died or will die later, after being declared virus-free, and it's not probable that we'll know, them being the foreign workers. Therefore, it seems that citing Singapore in this way is irrelevant while talking about the known and reported cases of people with damaged health in, for example, the U.S. We need other statistics.
seesawtron 6y ago
>> But the article does very little to study if these changes actually effect people and for how long. The higher bilateral gray matter volumes (GMV) in olfactory cortices, hippocampi, insulas, left Rolandic operculum would have long-term consequences which are indeed what it means: "long-term" i.e. too short to see physical manifestations of the impact in this study. But these changes in the brain are in itself horrifying given that the symptoms only manifest as respiratory and so on.
francisofascii 6y ago
> the number of people with crippling long-term effects is minimal The thousands of of reported "long haulers" is troubling. While not crippling, feeling tired and feverish every day for months does not sound pleasant. It also raises awareness that viruses in general (not just Covid) could potentially help explain long term lingering health issues.
- mmmeff 6y ago
  I'm a long hauler. Caught COVID in March. Still suffering. 28 years old. AMA.
  - burlesona 6y ago
    Which symptoms are still going?
  - just-juan-post 6y ago
    Tell us what your doctor says about your condition. Note I am NOT asking what you think your condition is. I am asking what your doctor is saying.
  - taigi100 6y ago
    How bad was your acute phase? Was it like a bad common cold or did you require hospitalization? Also, what symptoms do persist and how bad would you say they are? In what ways is your quality of life affected?
- just-juan-post 6y ago
  The "thousands" of SELF-REPORTED long haulers. Can you show us any evidence of this happening to "thousands" of people besides the article in the Atlantic? The article that only speculates that there are thousands? AFIAK the Atlantic article said there were thousands in a Facebook group but the Atlantic did not dig into how many in the group had symptoms or were just there for support. Besides 1 off "dog bites man" stories the Atlantic article I see little reason to continue to suppress regular day to day life for something like this. You and others can howl all you want but the reality is the numbers are not on your side. The EMOTIONAL argument is on your side ("think about the children!") but you have almost no imperial evidence and continuing this lifestyle due to what possibly might happen or what happen to less than one one hundredth of a percent of the population is pure madness. Suppress the many to save the the .00001% from long term complications. Pure, weapons grade insanity.

by rpiguy 6y ago

aphextron 6y ago

> Evidence, as well as basic observation points to people recovering very well from the disease For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet.

logicchains 6y ago
>For now. We have no idea what kind of long term damage this is going to cause yet. Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? Given how the immune system works it doesn't make sense that someone's body is good enough at fighting the virus that it only displays mild cold-like symptoms yet weak enough that it somehow lets the virus cause serious long-term damage.
- numbsafari 6y ago
  I have a cyst on my spine. It doesn't keep me from walking. But, many days, it keeps me awake and makes it very difficult for me to do physical tasks that I was once able to accomplish with ease. I used to be able to squat 545lbs. I can hardly lift 100 lbs without assistance. If I do a moderate day of yard work, I am unable to take a shower upright. All because of a pea-sized cyst. Just because something isn't fatal, or debilitating to the point of it putting you in a wheel chair, doesn't mean it can't have a massive impact on not only your quality of life and your relationships, it can keep you from being able to adequately care for yourself or be a productive member of society.
  - just-juan-post 6y ago
    Ok so what is your lockdown plan then? We lock down until what condition is met?
    - mmmeff 6y ago
      Just fuck off
- acqq 6y ago
  > Has there ever been an influenza/coronavirus-like infection with less than 0.1% fatality rate in working-age people (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/) that caused lasting disability in a significant proportion of the population? I've read that the low fatality rate of Singapore is due to mostly foreign, younger, healthy workers being the "cases" who were infected. Assuming that, the statistics of Singapore is not in any way inconsistent with what is observed in other locations. We already know that the older people have an order of magnitude higher probabilities to die while infected, or even two orders of magnitude when old enough. Note that the "fatality rate" in this context then says absolutely nothing about the permanent damages of the people's organs. The fatality rate is just "who promptly died after being detected positive." We don't know how many of Singapore cases remained with worse health after being infected, or even if some died or will die later, after being declared virus-free, and it's not probable that we'll know, them being the foreign workers. Therefore, it seems that citing Singapore in this way is irrelevant while talking about the known and reported cases of people with damaged health in, for example, the U.S. We need other statistics.

seesawtron 6y ago

>> But the article does very little to study if these changes actually effect people and for how long. The higher bilateral gray matter volumes (GMV) in olfactory cortices, hippocampi, insulas, left Rolandic operculum would have long-term consequences which are indeed what it means: "long-term" i.e. too short to see physical manifestations of the impact in this study. But these changes in the brain are in itself horrifying given that the symptoms only manifest as respiratory and so on.

francisofascii 6y ago

> the number of people with crippling long-term effects is minimal The thousands of of reported "long haulers" is troubling. While not crippling, feeling tired and feverish every day for months does not sound pleasant. It also raises awareness that viruses in general (not just Covid) could potentially help explain long term lingering health issues.

mmmeff 6y ago
I'm a long hauler. Caught COVID in March. Still suffering. 28 years old. AMA.
- burlesona 6y ago
  Which symptoms are still going?
- just-juan-post 6y ago
  Tell us what your doctor says about your condition. Note I am NOT asking what you think your condition is. I am asking what your doctor is saying.
- taigi100 6y ago
  How bad was your acute phase? Was it like a bad common cold or did you require hospitalization? Also, what symptoms do persist and how bad would you say they are? In what ways is your quality of life affected?
just-juan-post 6y ago
The "thousands" of SELF-REPORTED long haulers. Can you show us any evidence of this happening to "thousands" of people besides the article in the Atlantic? The article that only speculates that there are thousands? AFIAK the Atlantic article said there were thousands in a Facebook group but the Atlantic did not dig into how many in the group had symptoms or were just there for support. Besides 1 off "dog bites man" stories the Atlantic article I see little reason to continue to suppress regular day to day life for something like this. You and others can howl all you want but the reality is the numbers are not on your side. The EMOTIONAL argument is on your side ("think about the children!") but you have almost no imperial evidence and continuing this lifestyle due to what possibly might happen or what happen to less than one one hundredth of a percent of the population is pure madness. Suppress the many to save the the .00001% from long term complications. Pure, weapons grade insanity.