9 ms·

Why bother with Mac? I've just built a Xeon E5-2640 using a Chinese X79 motherboard. NMVe, proper Radeon RX580 GPU - in an open build test bench frame. All in a

Why bother with Mac? I've just built a Xeon E5-2640 using a Chinese X79 motherboard. NMVe, proper Radeon RX580 GPU - in an open build test bench frame. All in all, something like $250 on eBay for everything. Runs the games I like well and looks great on the table, especially with two big red LED fans in front. :-)

breakfastduck 6y ago
Some people just greatly prefer using macOS over windows or linux and don't want their entire computer experience to be windows just because they play games now and then.
- numpad0 6y ago
  Just buy two computers then, one for gaming and one Mac. An eGPU box costs as much as one anyway.
- mrweasel 6y ago
  macOS isn't exactly perfect, but I don't know any other desktop operating system that comes even close to macOS in terms of polish and user experience. I understand that Microsoft can't just redesign Windows over night, but I also fail to understand why Windows isn't better. Better as in more consistent and more responsive. As much as I like to consider other operating systems, the reality is that I don't want the hassle and macOS just works.
  - raffraffraff 6y ago
    I'd quit my job if they forced me to use Mac OS over my Linux desktop, so it really depends on what you're looking for and how much you are willing/able to customize your interface.
    - mrweasel 6y ago
      Absolutely true, and I’d probably feel the same about using Windows. For some reason interacting with the Windows UI causes my hand to cramp up. I have, and do use Linux semi regulary, but I customize NOTHING. I don’t want to manage my computer. The defaults in macOS is sane enough.
      - schmorptron 6y ago
        I've never used mac os, but definitely get you on sane defaults. From what I could tell, the few linux desktops that were actually meant to be used with their defaults and not customized immediately were the ones on elementary OS and Gnome, and they've actually gotten pretty nice and consistent in their design, and pretty good about spacing.
  - rado 6y ago
    Apparently consistency isn't a part of the majority's vocabulary and they can ignore 5 different styles of typography and dialogs, among many other issues. It's a disaster and officially not a priority for MS. Nothing comes close to macOS indeed.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      The majority is on Windows not because they don’t care about the inconsistencies but because Apple is too expensive and Windows too entrenched at lower price points.
    - untog 6y ago
      I understand being thrown off by inconsistencies in typography and it’s exactly the kind of thing that bugs me too... but it’s also an objectively tiny thing to worry about in the broader context of which computing platform you’re going to use. The bigger argument for macOS is the ergonomics of the hardware. Precious few Windows laptops hold a candle to a MacBook.
  - simonh 6y ago
    Windows went down a six year long dead end with 8.x trying to be both a desktop and a phone/tablet OS at the same time, while also doing it twice as fast as was actually feasible and without taking the time to think it through, in an attempt to catch up with iOS. Windows 10 actually doesn't seem too bad, except for the vestigial Metro crap. Power Shell looks interesting. They seem to have worked out what to do with .NET at last. WSL2 seems decent too so they finally seem to be back on a productive track.
    - shawnz 6y ago
      Not all of Apple's features are hits either.. for example, when's the last time you used Dashboard or Launchpad?
      - breakfastduck 6y ago
        Completely true, but there are way more hits than misses on macOS. Dashboard no longer ships with the OS. Launchpad is useless to me but I can completely forget it exists & never use it. I think the issues windows has had over the years come down to the fact that the 'misses' they've had are core parts of the OS that you can't avoid using. I do genuinely think Windows 10 is the best version of windows though, and with WSL they're definitely headed in the right direction.
      - sukilot 6y ago
        Apple ran experimental features that failed and we're easy to remove. Microsoft trashed the core UX twice (Vista and 8)
      - dylan604 6y ago
        I use Launchpad frequently. I rearranged my most common apps to be on one screen. I four finger swipe down on my MBP, and there's my apps. I still use Spotlight search too so I don't have to take my hands off the keyboard. Cmd-tab allows to switch to an app, but the Dashboard view lets me get to a specific window within an app directly from whatever view I'm currently in. 4 finger swipe up, and clickity click, I'm in the document I'm wanting
  - shawnz 6y ago
    Are you primarily a mac OS user? I am primarily a Windows user and when I occasionally have to use mac OS, I find myself regularly facing many seemingly inconsistent behaviors that really surprise me. I'm inclined to think it is a matter of familiarity more than anything.
    - untog 6y ago
      I agree that UI between the two is largely just a personal preference thing. But the POSIX underpinnings of MacOS is objectively useful for a great many developers. I appreciate what MS is doing with WSL but it’ll always be a poor substitute.
    - breakfastduck 6y ago
      This is likely a huge part of it. I'm primarily macOS but have a LOT of experience with Windows. I still feel like I'm fighting against Windows to do anything. I just think different people are suited to different workflows & macOS and Windows are very very different to each other.
      - SparkyMcUnicorn 6y ago
        I'm in the same boat as you. I was primarily Windows for many years, but reluctantly made the switch to MacOS for my daily driver a few years ago and I'm glad I did. Still have a Windows 10 machine, and although I do have some love for a few Windows-only applications, it just feels like an uphill battle whenever something isn't working.
      - ricohboy 6y ago
        Tell me about it - I work a support desk for an MSP; all Windows. I can't tell you how many times I've struggled with file permissions or partitions that I know would be very easy to fix in a *sh shell... Imagine being told "access denied" when you're running the command prompt as "administrator"!
        Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        > Imagine being told "access denied" when you're running the command prompt as "administrator". Coincidentally, I run into this on macOS due to System Integrity Protection. But what I like about SIP is it's easy to turn off and never be bothered by it again...
  - breakfastduck 6y ago
    I bought a gaming pc a few years back with the intention of using it for gaming only, and continuing to use my aging macbook for literally everything else. The macbook hard drive died and so I decided to try to use the PC as the daily driver. There are many reasons for it, but it boils down to the fact that I enjoy using macOS and I don't enjoy using Windows. If I'm not enjoying using a piece of tech, it's not worth the investment - regardless of price. Yes, Macs are expensive, but I don't mind paying more money to get an experience I actually enjoy. That to me is value, and why mac / pc benchmarks and price / performance comparisons are irrelevant to me as a person.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > I also fail to understand why Windows isn't better It's simple: Microsoft doesn't prioritize making it better. They prioritize funneling people into more Microsoft products like One Drive. They are following the general trend of IT: Fuck users.
  - asveikau 6y ago
    I would say the problem is exactly that they redesign Windows overnight, repeatedly. If they left the UI roughly where Win2k was I think there would be much fewer complaints. Instead you have successive generations of some team trying to make their mark. It's all additive, too, with vestiges of each wave left in place. By the way there are other operating systems besides macOS and Windows. Seems to be lost in a lot of these discussions.
  - beagle3 6y ago
    Having moved from Ubuntu/Unity to Mac, it feels like in my day to day use, the Mac and Unity have similar levels of polish and consistency (neither is perfect) but somehow Unity is way more usable, both out of the box (small things like the number of open App windows indicator) and with minor tweaks (5% less brightness for unfocused windows). I do use Firefox/Thunderbird on both, so perhaps I’m missing some special apple sauce.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  If you're blowing that kind of money on gaming I would hope you take it more seriously than "just now and then". Even so, with that kind of expenditure you can easily justify just having a dedicated gaming rig.
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  IMO it's more optimal to buy a separate gaming computer with Windows and use some reasonably priced Macintosh for other tasks.
  - e12e 6y ago
    > reasonably priced Macintosh What models would you consider "reasonably priced" ?
    - vbezhenar 6y ago
      All of them except Mac Pro. At least their base configurations. As you configure more disk or RAM, sometimes they become unreasonably priced.
reimertz 6y ago
This is a very fair question. For me, the reason for a hackintosh is just that I am tired of all the cables and having to swap between the two setups (like having one monitor for working, and one for gaming) while utilizing the performance when working. I also want to utilize my iCloud Drive symlinking hacks to sync files / dotfiles between systems. My gaming rig is currently running i4790k with a fairly decent motherboard (Asus Maximus VII) that I bought used for $200 a two years ago. It still performs like butter as long as you have a decent gpu connected to it. I seriously recommend this setup if you want to save some dough (or maybe the new Ryzen CPUs are better now tbh). A sidenote regarding monitors: These are some exciting times to be working from home combined with having an interest for gaming due to the new monitors coming out, working for both. I am currently thinking about the LG 38WN95C-W. Really expensive, but if you use it 8 hours a day for 5 years, I think I calculated it to be like 50 cent a day. :) edit: Oh, and yes, as someone below mentioned, I love macOS and a lot of the things I work on require me to work on it.
- jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
  You can share a monitor between two computers. What do you on macOS that isn't available on Windows? Really curious.
  - jonfw 6y ago
    Not OP- but I do a lot of work with containers and orchestration- and being on a Unix filesystem with native POSIX shell is very helpful
    - GordonS 6y ago
      Docker on MacOS is notoriously slow though - I use it myself sometimes, and it's never a good experience.
      - wadkar 6y ago
        I’m not sure if it’s true anymore. I experienced good performance when they switched to using xhyve/bhyve (basically use docker for mac). Can you shade more light on your experience? When was this? What circumstances? Which kind of apps?
Nursie 6y ago
I was going to ask if that wasn't as loud as hell. But it looks like the 2640 is a 65W part, so not excessive. Huh, not a bad buy for a few bucks, looks like you could get a 6C/12T board and cpu for about £60 from ebay. (I don't need more computers, I don't need more computers...)
PostThisTooFast 6y ago
If you want to develop iOS apps, you have to have Mac OS. Even if you use a cross-platform tool, you have to compile and deploy from Mac OS, I think.

breakfastduck 6y ago

Some people just greatly prefer using macOS over windows or linux and don't want their entire computer experience to be windows just because they play games now and then.

numpad0 6y ago
Just buy two computers then, one for gaming and one Mac. An eGPU box costs as much as one anyway.
mrweasel 6y ago
macOS isn't exactly perfect, but I don't know any other desktop operating system that comes even close to macOS in terms of polish and user experience. I understand that Microsoft can't just redesign Windows over night, but I also fail to understand why Windows isn't better. Better as in more consistent and more responsive. As much as I like to consider other operating systems, the reality is that I don't want the hassle and macOS just works.
- raffraffraff 6y ago
  I'd quit my job if they forced me to use Mac OS over my Linux desktop, so it really depends on what you're looking for and how much you are willing/able to customize your interface.
  - mrweasel 6y ago
    Absolutely true, and I’d probably feel the same about using Windows. For some reason interacting with the Windows UI causes my hand to cramp up. I have, and do use Linux semi regulary, but I customize NOTHING. I don’t want to manage my computer. The defaults in macOS is sane enough.
    - schmorptron 6y ago
      I've never used mac os, but definitely get you on sane defaults. From what I could tell, the few linux desktops that were actually meant to be used with their defaults and not customized immediately were the ones on elementary OS and Gnome, and they've actually gotten pretty nice and consistent in their design, and pretty good about spacing.
- rado 6y ago
  Apparently consistency isn't a part of the majority's vocabulary and they can ignore 5 different styles of typography and dialogs, among many other issues. It's a disaster and officially not a priority for MS. Nothing comes close to macOS indeed.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    The majority is on Windows not because they don’t care about the inconsistencies but because Apple is too expensive and Windows too entrenched at lower price points.
  - untog 6y ago
    I understand being thrown off by inconsistencies in typography and it’s exactly the kind of thing that bugs me too... but it’s also an objectively tiny thing to worry about in the broader context of which computing platform you’re going to use. The bigger argument for macOS is the ergonomics of the hardware. Precious few Windows laptops hold a candle to a MacBook.
- simonh 6y ago
  Windows went down a six year long dead end with 8.x trying to be both a desktop and a phone/tablet OS at the same time, while also doing it twice as fast as was actually feasible and without taking the time to think it through, in an attempt to catch up with iOS. Windows 10 actually doesn't seem too bad, except for the vestigial Metro crap. Power Shell looks interesting. They seem to have worked out what to do with .NET at last. WSL2 seems decent too so they finally seem to be back on a productive track.
  - shawnz 6y ago
    Not all of Apple's features are hits either.. for example, when's the last time you used Dashboard or Launchpad?
    - breakfastduck 6y ago
      Completely true, but there are way more hits than misses on macOS. Dashboard no longer ships with the OS. Launchpad is useless to me but I can completely forget it exists & never use it. I think the issues windows has had over the years come down to the fact that the 'misses' they've had are core parts of the OS that you can't avoid using. I do genuinely think Windows 10 is the best version of windows though, and with WSL they're definitely headed in the right direction.
    - sukilot 6y ago
      Apple ran experimental features that failed and we're easy to remove. Microsoft trashed the core UX twice (Vista and 8)
    - dylan604 6y ago
      I use Launchpad frequently. I rearranged my most common apps to be on one screen. I four finger swipe down on my MBP, and there's my apps. I still use Spotlight search too so I don't have to take my hands off the keyboard. Cmd-tab allows to switch to an app, but the Dashboard view lets me get to a specific window within an app directly from whatever view I'm currently in. 4 finger swipe up, and clickity click, I'm in the document I'm wanting
- shawnz 6y ago
  Are you primarily a mac OS user? I am primarily a Windows user and when I occasionally have to use mac OS, I find myself regularly facing many seemingly inconsistent behaviors that really surprise me. I'm inclined to think it is a matter of familiarity more than anything.
  - untog 6y ago
    I agree that UI between the two is largely just a personal preference thing. But the POSIX underpinnings of MacOS is objectively useful for a great many developers. I appreciate what MS is doing with WSL but it’ll always be a poor substitute.
  - breakfastduck 6y ago
    This is likely a huge part of it. I'm primarily macOS but have a LOT of experience with Windows. I still feel like I'm fighting against Windows to do anything. I just think different people are suited to different workflows & macOS and Windows are very very different to each other.
    - SparkyMcUnicorn 6y ago
      I'm in the same boat as you. I was primarily Windows for many years, but reluctantly made the switch to MacOS for my daily driver a few years ago and I'm glad I did. Still have a Windows 10 machine, and although I do have some love for a few Windows-only applications, it just feels like an uphill battle whenever something isn't working.
    - ricohboy 6y ago
      Tell me about it - I work a support desk for an MSP; all Windows. I can't tell you how many times I've struggled with file permissions or partitions that I know would be very easy to fix in a *sh shell... Imagine being told "access denied" when you're running the command prompt as "administrator"!
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        > Imagine being told "access denied" when you're running the command prompt as "administrator". Coincidentally, I run into this on macOS due to System Integrity Protection. But what I like about SIP is it's easy to turn off and never be bothered by it again...
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  I bought a gaming pc a few years back with the intention of using it for gaming only, and continuing to use my aging macbook for literally everything else. The macbook hard drive died and so I decided to try to use the PC as the daily driver. There are many reasons for it, but it boils down to the fact that I enjoy using macOS and I don't enjoy using Windows. If I'm not enjoying using a piece of tech, it's not worth the investment - regardless of price. Yes, Macs are expensive, but I don't mind paying more money to get an experience I actually enjoy. That to me is value, and why mac / pc benchmarks and price / performance comparisons are irrelevant to me as a person.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > I also fail to understand why Windows isn't better It's simple: Microsoft doesn't prioritize making it better. They prioritize funneling people into more Microsoft products like One Drive. They are following the general trend of IT: Fuck users.
- asveikau 6y ago
  I would say the problem is exactly that they redesign Windows overnight, repeatedly. If they left the UI roughly where Win2k was I think there would be much fewer complaints. Instead you have successive generations of some team trying to make their mark. It's all additive, too, with vestiges of each wave left in place. By the way there are other operating systems besides macOS and Windows. Seems to be lost in a lot of these discussions.
- beagle3 6y ago
  Having moved from Ubuntu/Unity to Mac, it feels like in my day to day use, the Mac and Unity have similar levels of polish and consistency (neither is perfect) but somehow Unity is way more usable, both out of the box (small things like the number of open App windows indicator) and with minor tweaks (5% less brightness for unfocused windows). I do use Firefox/Thunderbird on both, so perhaps I’m missing some special apple sauce.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
If you're blowing that kind of money on gaming I would hope you take it more seriously than "just now and then". Even so, with that kind of expenditure you can easily justify just having a dedicated gaming rig.
vbezhenar 6y ago
IMO it's more optimal to buy a separate gaming computer with Windows and use some reasonably priced Macintosh for other tasks.
- e12e 6y ago
  > reasonably priced Macintosh What models would you consider "reasonably priced" ?
  - vbezhenar 6y ago
    All of them except Mac Pro. At least their base configurations. As you configure more disk or RAM, sometimes they become unreasonably priced.

reimertz 6y ago

This is a very fair question. For me, the reason for a hackintosh is just that I am tired of all the cables and having to swap between the two setups (like having one monitor for working, and one for gaming) while utilizing the performance when working. I also want to utilize my iCloud Drive symlinking hacks to sync files / dotfiles between systems. My gaming rig is currently running i4790k with a fairly decent motherboard (Asus Maximus VII) that I bought used for $200 a two years ago. It still performs like butter as long as you have a decent gpu connected to it. I seriously recommend this setup if you want to save some dough (or maybe the new Ryzen CPUs are better now tbh). A sidenote regarding monitors: These are some exciting times to be working from home combined with having an interest for gaming due to the new monitors coming out, working for both. I am currently thinking about the LG 38WN95C-W. Really expensive, but if you use it 8 hours a day for 5 years, I think I calculated it to be like 50 cent a day. :) edit: Oh, and yes, as someone below mentioned, I love macOS and a lot of the things I work on require me to work on it.

jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
You can share a monitor between two computers. What do you on macOS that isn't available on Windows? Really curious.
- jonfw 6y ago
  Not OP- but I do a lot of work with containers and orchestration- and being on a Unix filesystem with native POSIX shell is very helpful
  - GordonS 6y ago
    Docker on MacOS is notoriously slow though - I use it myself sometimes, and it's never a good experience.
    - wadkar 6y ago
      I’m not sure if it’s true anymore. I experienced good performance when they switched to using xhyve/bhyve (basically use docker for mac). Can you shade more light on your experience? When was this? What circumstances? Which kind of apps?

Nursie 6y ago

I was going to ask if that wasn't as loud as hell. But it looks like the 2640 is a 65W part, so not excessive. Huh, not a bad buy for a few bucks, looks like you could get a 6C/12T board and cpu for about £60 from ebay. (I don't need more computers, I don't need more computers...)

PostThisTooFast 6y ago

If you want to develop iOS apps, you have to have Mac OS. Even if you use a cross-platform tool, you have to compile and deploy from Mac OS, I think.