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Greg Joswiak replaces Phil Schiller as head of Apple marketing
- perardi 6y agoI saw some snap reactions that boiled down to “he doesn’t want to deal with the potential antitrust firestorm”, but also, the guy is 60, and has worked at what I can imagine must be a frenetic pace for like 30 years, and maybe he just wants to slow down a bit.
- guywithabike 6y agoHe's also still head of the App Store which is the center of the majority of the antitrust firestorm, so it honestly looks more like he'll be able to focus on that for now.
- MBCook 6y agoSteve Troughton-Smith suggested on Twitter that he may keep that role only so that they can fire him as a sacrificial lamb when the anti-trust hammer comes down.
- microtherion 6y agoHe wouldn't have to "deal with the potential antitrust firestorm" anyway. Apple has perfectly capable legal and government relations departments for that.
- bengale 6y agoThere is some pretty impressive fantasy politics going on around this anti-trust stuff. As you say they have departments full of people that deal with all of this, except the times when Cook needs to essentially present their work. On top of that, nothing is going to happen anyway. Even if in a few years of the process they decide to make changes it'll be a few more years before anything is legislated. So even if people that think what's going on needs to change get everything they want, realistically, it won't be until later in the decade until anything starts to move. It must have something to do with the way politics is presented to the masses these days, but it's not a TV show. Playing guess the plot line doesn't really work.
- ordinaryradical 6y agoI legitimately cannot tell from the way this is worded if this is a promotion or if he's stepping aside. I guess that's intentional and means it's the latter, right?
- gregoriol 6y agoThis looks a bit like the Ive stepping aside. Which might be good in the end.
- mistersquid 6y ago> I legitimately cannot tell from the way this is worded if this is a promotion or if he's stepping aside. CNBC uses a more "obvious" headline, "Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller steps down from role". [0] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/apple-replaces-longtime-marketing-chief-phil-schiller.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/apple-replaces-longtime-mark...
- kylec 6y agoA bit of both, it's sort of like moving from CEO to Chairman of the Board of a company. Still influential, but less involved in day-to-day operations.
- dutchmartin 6y agoPhill became 60 years old, this step is just him taking a smaller role while he can educate his replacement until he decides to retire (which is certainly financially possible for him to do after he becomes 65).
- mercer 6y agoI imagine financially he probably could've retired a while ago, no?
- robszumski 6y agoI would say so: "Mr. Schiller owns over 69,491 units of Apple stock worth over $18,846,432 and over the last 16 years he sold AAPL stock worth over $73,528,915."
- Amorymeltzer 6y agoNo need for corporate PR. Via verge: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21354367/apple-phil-schiller-fellow-greg-joswiak-head-marketing-store-events https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21354367/apple-phil-schill... >Apple’s longtime marketing chief, Phil Schiller, is stepping into a slightly smaller role after decades with the company. Schiller is dropping his role as senior vice president of worldwide marketing, but he’ll remain in charge of the App Store and Apple Events. Greg Joswiak, previously the head of product marketing, will take over Schiller’s former position as Apple’s overall marketing leader.
- dang 6y agoOk, changed from https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/08/phil-schiller-advances-to-apple-fellow/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/08/phil-schiller-advance.... Thanks! https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20corporate%20press%20release&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- Amorymeltzer 6y agoThanks! Meta question: I had submitted this link[1] before posting the link here. IIRC this had a score of ~27 at the time; I don't need the karma, but what's best practice for changed-link submissions? Does it make your life easier if I delete my submission, or is there no real difference? 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24052643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24052643
- dang 6y agoThere's no real difference, so don't spend valuable time on that. Perhaps when we eventually implement karma sharing for posts of the same article, the system will pick up cases like this and give earlier submitters a share.
- tosh 6y agoapologies for my misleading title, I changed it with good intention (to make it clearer than the PR headline) but I misread the content (clouded by my assumptions) and screwed up. sorry!
- dlivingston 6y agoThis is the first I’ve ever heard of “Apple Fellows”. According to Wikipedia [0], > To recognize the best of its employees, Apple created the Apple Fellows program which awards individuals who make extraordinary technical or leadership contributions to personal computing while at the company. The Apple Fellowship has so far been awarded to individuals including Bill Atkinson, Steve Capps, Rod Holt, Alan Kay, Guy Kawasaki, Al Alcorn, Don Norman, Rich Page, and Steve Wozniak. I wonder what qualifies “extraordinary”. For example, Chris Lattner, creator of Swift and LLVM, seems to have fit that adjective as well as anyone and yet his name is absent from this list. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Corporate_affairs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Corporate_affairs
- kortilla 6y agoMany of the major tech companies have these exalted “fellow” ranks, both new and old (IBM, Google, Cisco, etc). From the internal docs I’ve read about the process to get there, you have to both make great contributions to the field as well as be important to the right people at the company.
- georgespencer 6y agoI think it was Sun who pioneered fellowships as a way of defusing the tension between the desire for higher remuneration in talented engineers + the fact that they are often best suited to staying in an individual contributor role which doesn't enable them to receive it. Many engineers get promoted out of their zone of genius and have to spend time managing others and doing all sorts of other things unrelated to the talent which made them famous.
- dreamcompiler 6y agoIf Sun did it they copied it from Bell Labs, who had a technical staff ladder and "Fellows" before Silicon Valley even existed.
- p_l 6y ago
- newscracker 6y agoI’ve always loved seeing Phil Schiller’s presentations on stage in keynotes for several years, though in the last few years he stepped back and Apple started putting many more people (than before) on stage to present in the keynotes. A few of his words or lines on stage have been fodder for people to argue on (“courage” when removing the headphone jack from iPhones) or make fun of (“can’t innovate my ass” when introducing the trash can Mac Pro that later went without any updates or news for years). But he was a natural and a master at presentations, IMO. If one didn’t know about him and watched his presentation, they’d find it hard to believe that a “marketing” person could talk so well about tech. Craig Federighi is another great presenter who brings in humor along with some puns involving tech terms (not all his jokes may land well, but you gotta give him credit for many that do). In this mix, I don’t see Greg Joswiak in the same league. He may be a good senior VP of marketing, but a great story teller and presenter he’s not. Sorry, Greg, if you’re reading this. Those others have set standards that are difficult to beat. I wish Phil well, and hope that he’s able to contribute to Apple for many more years to come.
- CoolGuySteve 6y agoIt's funny, I have the exact opposite opinion of Phil. Back when I worked at Apple we'd watch every presentation because, hey, it's a good excuse to slack off at the office. Phil was always the most boring guy because you always knew exactly what he was going to say and exactly what kind of non-answers he'd give to questions. I mean yeah, it's great he hits the mark perfectly every time, but it's also so, so boring. He's the classic marketing shill. I wonder if his name is really even Fill Shiller, it's too perfect.
- newscracker 6y agoThanks. It’s interesting to hear other perspectives. > Phil was always the most boring guy because you always knew exactly what he was going to say and exactly what kind of non-answers he'd give to questions. I never felt this way. Maybe it’s because I was never in a place where I could ask him questions or watched a presentation where someone could ask him questions. > I mean yeah, it's great he hits the mark perfectly every time, but it's also so, so boring. He's the classic marketing shill. I wonder if his name is really even Fill Shiller, it's too perfect. I didn’t see most of his presentations as marketing shill. Maybe I haven’t been paying much attention to that aspect.
- Despegar 6y agoPhil Schiller, and the whole marketing group, are an underestimated part of Apple's success over the past 20 years. It's why there's no company like Apple in the tech industry.
- ponker 6y agoNobody underestimates Apple's marketing. In fact I think it's the other way around, a lot of people pooh-pooh desire for their products as just marketing-susceptible idiots (e.g. "I could get the same features in an Android for $200 less and it comes with a MicroSD slot and headphone jack... but fanboys need their iPhone") looking for a cool brand when the reality is that they also make some of the best products.
- snazz 6y agoExactly. It can be difficult to explain to someone who used Android their whole life that iMessage (for example) is such a huge differentiating feature (at least in the US) when they see iPhone users as sheeple who buy purely based on marketing and product placement. Apple does a really good job of taking care of the little details on many of their devices, even if Macs are very expensive for what you get and the ecosystem has such a significant lock-in effect. Also, despite the fact that it’s shallow, status signaling is sometimes useful. Just like with the well-dressed Manhattan lawyer example in the recent thread about physical attractiveness in legal justice, having the right product in the right crowd subconsciously affects how others see you.
- sjg007 6y agoI've had androids and find that iphones have better battery life so that was my main reason for sticking with the iphone. Maybe that's different now.. not sure. I don't like paying $1k for a phone for sure.
- kroltan 6y agoYes, but you have to consider also that people have different priorities. For example, you say that "iMessage is a huge differentiating feature", but if most of that person's social circle uses other services, there is no advantage there. And UI polish might rank lower compared to the lock-in. I'm not saying you're wrong to value those things, but a good amount of people don't. So no amount of explaining why iMessage is great will convince them, even if they understand and agree iMessage is great, since the "maximum appreciation" for any feature is capped by the perceived value of its premise.
- amrrs 6y agoI don't know if it's the age (like Phil mentioned he wants to spend time with Family, Friends, Personal projects) or it's the recent criticism that areas like App Store and others got. Whatever I always enjoyed Phil Schiller on stage. While Jony Ive's voiceover looked like a real marketing material, Phil's presentations were always energetic and real. Especially his way of introducing new hardwares and processors. I'll miss his presentations. Hope he gets good time to do what he wants!
- microtherion 6y agoIf the move were due to the recent App Store criticism, it would be odd for the App Store to remain part of his reduced portfolio, as seems to be the case. > I always enjoyed Phil Schiller on stage My favorite Schiller keynote moment was his iBook stunt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MR4R5LdrJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MR4R5LdrJw I've heard rumors that Schiller was actually afraid of heights, so this may not have been that easy for him.
- philistine 6y agoI had to talk with my wife about her next home office. We sat down, and talked about a screen, a keyboard, a desk, everything. We looked at a new Macbook Air, maybe a Mac Mini, and ended up at a 21-inch iMac for her, because it has everything but the desk and chair. That discussion, with Shiller now leaving the position, was absolutely engineered by Shiller and his team to happen exactly the way it happened. His influence on computing is deep.
- Solstinox 6y agoWouldn't give Phil or Apple marketing that much credit. They're good, they're not that good.
- HatchedLake721 6y agoIf Apple/Phil Schiller are not that good in marketing, who is good for you personally?
- Solstinox 6y agoApple/Schiller are good, maybe even the best. That doesn't mean they anticipated, planned, or engineered individual conversations between two people.
- mhh__ 6y agoI think OP was being poetic
- philistine 6y agoThank you.
- mhh__ 6y agoWith a user name like that it's hard to tell
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- williesleg 6y agoNow if we can only replace Tim Apple
- faangFar 6y agoI predict this is the end of Apple. The marketing is what made the Trillion dollar company, not the product. Why would you change what works? Utterly shocking, I wouldn't be surprised if the stock price plummets tomorrow.
- djrogers 6y agoIndividuals do not make companies, and individuals have reasons outside of work for doing what they do. The man has worked at Apple for almost 35 years, and is 60yrs old - why would he want to continue in a huge role instead of reducing his role?
- simonh 6y agoOh wow “the marketing.... not the product”. How to utterly, hilariously miss the point. The marketing is the product. This is exactly why so many people don’t get Apple and how they operate. Do you know who came up with the concept for the click wheel on the original iPod? It was Phil Schiller, he suggested it in a meeting with all the senior heads on how the device should work. Marketing, design and engineering work incredibly closely together at Apple. Phil would be a great loss (it seems he’s not actually going yet), but Apple has lost major contributors before. They have a strong team and incredible depth of talent. They’ll be ok.
- vaxman 6y agoVery glad Phil remains in control of AppStore mainly because he has respect for independent software developers. Eddy Cue, Hairforce One and Apple Employee #8 see them like unsigned musicians and should not be involved with developers in anyway. What's more is that it's clear their new boss (Tim Apple), like millions of others, is only now beginning to realize that the "gangster tactics" (of using math to restrict app functionality) is not totally about about preventing malware, ensuring privacy and protecting the brand reputation with users. He seems almost blind-sided by the world governments moving to act on a level that even Billy and Balmy didn't have to face after many years of actually killing the life's work (and thus the life) of hundreds of earlier software professionals (RIP Jay Miner).
- agloeregrets 6y agoYou’re kidding right? 100% of the 30% cut stuff is Phil.
- robomartin 6y agoMany many moons ago, before the iPhone existed, I found myself reading an email from Steve Jobs while coding in the garage at 3:30AM. The email exchange had to do with difficulties we were having working with Apple hardware in the context of hardware we were developing. I reached out to Steve at 3:00 AM and got a response thirty minutes later. After replying with a detailed explanation of the issues we encountered I got a one sentence reply back from Steve: "I understand". The next morning, actually, later that same morning, I got a call from someone from Apple. He said "Steve asked me to take care of this". That person was Greg Joswiak. We were invited to come up to headquarters to discuss the issues and work out a path forward. I met him and many other members of the engineering team while there. Small world.
- Austin_Conlon 6y agoBoth Greg Joswiak and Craig Federighi respond to emails that come from anyone, just like Steve Jobs did. That’s wild how Joz had you even come into the headquarters to sort out that hardware issue.
- robomartin 6y agoYeah, it was very cool to not only get straight to the top at three in the morning but to also see immediate action. We were in Cupertino the very next week, took a few road cases full of test equipment and hardware, setup in one of the conference rooms and had a bunch of great conversations with a range of engineers and non-engineers as well. Good memories of a different era for Apple. Once the iPhone took off priorities changed.
- valuearb 6y agoWhen Phil took over the App Store from Eddy Cue, he made substantial improvements in how developers were treated in amazingly short span of time. Developers should be very sad when he finally retires.
- ericlewis 6y agoEddy has been in charge for years Now
- valuearb 6y agoResponsibility for the App Store was taken from Eddie Cue and given to Phil Schiller at the end of 2015. Eddie still runs iTunes and Apple Music, iCloud, Maos, Apple Pay, and their productivity apps. He’s been known to work so hard he falls asleep in meetings.
- ericlewis 6y agoBye phil. Hope we can upgrade.