14 ms·

Solid spec bump. Interesting how much emphasis they put on the camera, speakers, and mic; makes total sense in the age of Zoom. I’d also speculate this means i

Solid spec bump. Interesting how much emphasis they put on the camera, speakers, and mic; makes total sense in the age of Zoom. I’d also speculate this means iMac won’t be the first computer getting Apple Silicon. I wonder if it will be the last? What’s the consensus guess now? Perhaps a new MacBook Air with good performance but the real “breakthrough” is > 12 hours battery life?

godzillabrennus 6y ago
I think the MacBook they had discontinued is rumored to be making an Apple Silicon powered return.
- dbbk 6y ago
  There's no 'intel' to support that as far as I'm aware though, just sensible speculation.
dijit 6y ago
It will almost certainly be a low end macbook. In fact, there's a non-pro 'macbook'[0] that already exists which would be perfect, it was discontinued a year ago, but used ultra-low power CPUs. In fact when they were talking about them (prior to release) they thought they would have ARM CPU's back then. They are fanless and have a 5W thermal envelope, which fits in with the current A12X too. The major criticisms of the design at the time was: Butterfly keyboard, the Single USB-C port and the speed of the device (Intel CORE-M is truly, truly painful). But for a $600-$700 machine with an ARM CPU? that's insanely competitive, and is in-line with the "basic" macbook branding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_(2015%E2%80%932019) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_(2015%E2%80%932019)
- varjag 6y ago
  I have a later 2017 revision of that one, never really had an issue with CPU speed. Mine has RAM maxed to 16Gb though, perhaps that helps. It's a great machine: a real computer but with iPad pro dimensions.
  - dijit 6y ago
    The "best" CPU that comes in that lineup is the Intel Core i7-7Y75. I have a GPD P2 Max[0] which also has 16GiB of ram and a Intel Core m3-8100Y... Not to brag but my CPU does seem to bench higher[1][2], and for me it can be painfully slow at times.. Though perhaps the OS is doing me no favours (Sway+Arch/Chromium) [0]: http://gpd.hk/gpdp2max http://gpd.hk/gpdp2max [1]: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-7Y75-vs-Intel-m3-8100Y/2880vs3367 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-7Y75-vs-Intel-... [2]: https://askgeek.io/en/cpus/vs/Intel_Core-m3-8100Y-vs-Intel_Core-i7-7Y75 https://askgeek.io/en/cpus/vs/Intel_Core-m3-8100Y-vs-Intel_C...
    - varjag 6y ago
      I've used some fanless Ideapad before this with Core M as well, let's just say there is no comparison. With that one a tiling WM was very much a necessity. My office PC is a very generously specced desktop, but for user interaction tasks like coding, browsing etc there is no appreciable difference with MB12.
    - stock_toaster 6y ago
      I think the 12" 2017 model with the i5 was the best one. The i7 got a little hot, and the m3 was pretty slow. The i5 (I'm still using it today and it works great) doesn't suffer from heat issues nearly as bad as the i7.
  - jquery 6y ago
    I’ve been force-feeding myself the new iPad Pro with magic keyboard as my primary laptop for the past few months (why? So I can experience what kids are largely experiencing these days, and empathize). It’s definitely a “real computer”, just optimized in a different way than I’m used to. Doesn’t feel like a budget computer either, it’s incredibly powerful for something that uses less than 18 watts and has no fan. IPadOS has some rough edges but they’ve been getting quickly smoothed out.
    - varjag 6y ago
      Well I very much need Emacs and Unix-like environment for work, so iPad doesn't quite cut it. That said I've got a 11" Pro: mostly as a portable second display via Sidecar for MB12 but also some pen-based apps like Sketchr3d. It's nice and if you have a workflow that suits it, no doubt it's usable.
- efficax 6y ago
  the 12" macbook is my favorite laptop of all time. Mine is the 2016 version and it's starting to feel dated and I'm hoping that they rerelease this on the new silicon first. I'll be smashing the buy button the day it's out.
  - thewhitetulip 6y ago
    Mine is a Macbook pro 2012 and it is still phenomenal. 2yrs ago, my screen used to flicker. I contacted everyone and they said 'change motherboard' and Mac support people were like buy a new laptop. so I kept the laptop in cupboard for a few months and I open it to check if it works, had decided to sell it and buy a new one and viola, it was working perfectly fine. ~5yrs with no issues.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - chrisweekly 6y ago
      2012 mbp15r, maxxed out specs at the time (16GB DDR3, 500MB SSD), daily driver for eight(!) years, and has maybe 5 tiny dead pixels as the only sign it's the worse for wear. Current gig requires use of client-provided 2019 mbp16r with approximately the same size, weight and perf. I don't hate it, but it's hard to believe my ancient personal box is about as capable. They really don't make em like they used to.
      - thewhitetulip 6y ago
        >I don't hate it, but it's hard to believe my ancient personal box is about as capable Exactly my point. The funny thing is, I bought the 2012 model at half the price of the new models and I have 0 complaints about it. No fancy keyboard issue, no fancy thermal issue. Nothing. and to think that since then, they've made more problems than laptops! They really don't make them like they used to. I just want a better battery backup that's it. I get 6-8hrs because I did a lot of research about how Li batteries drain (it is best if you do not let it drain below 50% because Li batteries' lifecycle depends on the high-low charge discharge cycles so if you keep discharging battery to 0% then you're scrwed in a few years) I'll buy the 2012 model again, if this one dies out, but won't ever buy the latest models.
- tzs 6y ago
  > Single USB-C port Are their hubs yet that can turn one USB C port into several? Or do they still only turn one USB C port into several USB A ports? A couple years ago what I read was that the hold up was that this required more complicated chipsets that would not be available for a few months and would be expensive. More recently, I've read that this won't happen until USB4.
  - dijit 6y ago
    Yes, my girlfriend works with a 2 TB port macbook pro and has a dock like this: https://www.webhallen.com/se/product/313438-ALOGIC-USB-C-Dock-Wave-Qi-laddare-USB-C-hub https://www.webhallen.com/se/product/313438-ALOGIC-USB-C-Doc... She uses it with a USB keyboard/mouse and PS4 controller and an external 1440p screen.. works without issue.
    - epistasis 6y ago
      That appears to only have a single C port. It's a strange thing, you can get these super complicated docking stations with all sorts of different ports, but can't get a 4-port hub that's only usb-c connectors. At least neither tzs nor I have found such hubs.
      - dijit 6y ago
        Completely misread your original comment, I apologise. You are right, I do not see them.. I wonder if that's for a particular reason. :\
      - Someone 6y ago
        Googling “usb-c to usb-c multiport hub” gives me plenty of hits, for example https://www.sitecom.com/en/usb-c-hub-4-port/cn-386/p/1881 https://www.sitecom.com/en/usb-c-hub-4-port/cn-386/p/1881: “Turn your USB-C port into 3 ultrafast USB-C ports and 1 USB-C Power Delivery Port”
        epistasis 6y ago
        Oh wow, thanks for that link, I have never come across that! Also, when I google with your phrase, there are no hits like that on the first page. I wonder if google is customizing my searches away from what I want...
- newsclues 6y ago
  The Mac mini and MacBook will be first
  - savoytruffle 6y ago
    The Mac mini is a vital part of the lineup, but it is so much of a utility computer. That's why they utilized it for the Developer Transition Kit. It's hard to market it since it's nearly invisible on a desk and there's no Apple monitor that is reasonable to pair with it. For 'Apple Silicon' for xmas, one would assume several notebooks and maybe something like an iMac with a built-in display.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > But for a $600-$700 machine with an ARM CPU? that's insanely competitive, and is in-line with the "basic" macbook branding. I'm skeptical Apple's introduction of their high performance CPUs exclusively on a low end device. A super light/ high performance 12ish inch machine seems right up their ally, but they don't want the new CPU associated with being a low-end "Intel Pentium Gold" type device. There might be a lower end ultra-thin laptop released, but they are going to go big and push out a high performance CPU right out the gate. They didn't launch their 64 bit A series CPU on a secondary device, they won't launch this on a secondary device either.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    I've heard rumours of a low end 12" MacBook, along with a 13" MacBook pro targeting developers as launch devices. No idea if it's true, but it would certainly make a lot of sense.
    - Yeri 6y ago
      With the Intel release they also released two devices at the same time (MBP and iMac, and other models quickly followed). I’d assume them to do the same: a high end (MBP?) and low end device (MB? MBA?); that’s where ARM will shine first (mobile: battery life; maybe even integrating a modem with esims). Desktops will follow later.
    - skohan 6y ago
      I don’t know if they would actually do it, but that would be an awesome way to launch: one category-defining device in terms of portibility and performance, and one super high end device to create a halo effect around the new processors
      - ogre_codes 6y ago
        Yes, this would be a good strategy. The "low end" one would likely ship with the same CPU as the next-model iPad. The higher end one would be their new shiny high performance designed-for-MacBook CPU.
- jkestner 6y ago
  Optics dictate that Apple show the superiority of the new silicon, and it wouldn't want it immediately pigeonholed as something like Surface X, a compromised curiosity. Apple's been consistent about ~10 hours of battery life for a while. They've hit their spec and think that most people don't need more in typical usage. So they'll be able to shave battery volume down to continue their trend of thinner without sacrificing other specs. The recently discontinued MacBook was a vision statement that the hardware could not quite reach, much like the first MacBook Air. Here, I think that statement realized would be a MacBook Pro that is as thin as that MacBook, and is still notably faster than the current MacBook Pro.
  - bredren 6y ago
    I see no need for a standalone Macbook to negatively portray Apple Silcon. "Macbook" is the heart of the entire PC portable line for Apple. "Macbook"is the grounding of the brand itself. I think Apple will release the Macbook as the first Apple Silicon machine because of the optics of confidently putting the hardware at the symbolic heart of the entire portable line. I do not think the 12" that was discontinued should be thought of also as where the machine will be picked up in terms of form factor. This is not how Apple behaves, when tech shifts or they don't like where they left off, they change direction. (i.e. the Mac Pro trashcan -> modern Mac Pro) Apple Silicon will allow Apple to reintroduce the Macbook as a compelling machine addressing many customer types. This base machine would pave to eliminate the Macbook Air and redesign the Macbook Pro. With a few models of Macbook and Macbook Pro the portable product line will be simplified and clean up the confusing price / feature / performance comparison problems that exist today.
    - Veedrac 6y ago
      To the skeptics, Apple Silicon is about thin laptops and fat margins. It makes no sense for Apple to reinforce this. Apple's silicon team is exceptional, and they should prove it.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        And they will, delivering thin, light, long-lasting laptops, with high performance and the fattest of margins. The only people they need to prove themselves to are shareholders, and this is gonna do the trick. In many ways the same was true in 2006.
- Razengan 6y ago
  > Intel CORE-M is truly, truly painful No, it wasn’t. I used to ru Xcode, iOS Simulator, World of Warcraft, League of Legends on the fanless MacBook with 8 GB of RAM just fine enough.
  - pvarangot 6y ago
    Lightroom or Ableton are almost impossible to run on a CORE-M. It's painful specially after a 10/15 minute editing session when the fans kick in and not only you have to deal with a noisy laptop but also your CPU gets underclocked and switching between your full screen Lightroom or Ableton back to Chrome sometimes takes more than 30 seconds. WoW and LoL are very lightweight compared to pro image or sound editing software, specially because they are doing a lot of the heavy stuff in your GPU. Even the Mac Pro is also kinda bad with that software to be honest, specially if you spend more than half an hour using it, because of the thermal issues.
  - tmpz22 6y ago
    You can both be right. Machine defects, or just aging, can cause the battery to expand and internals to coat with dust - causing thermal throtting, excessive fan usage, and significantly worst performance, after even just a year or so.
- samatman 6y ago
  Agreed, and I want to add one prediction (which is maybe just a hope): It will have a SIM card slot, and get at least 12 hours of battery life while using LTE. This would be a truly compelling product, filling a niche Apple has tried to inhabit a couple of times, with the distinct possibility of getting it right this time.
  - lsllc 6y ago
    With tethering, I'm not sure I want a SIM card in my laptop! If nothing else, AT&T will charge me extra for that (I'm already paying extra per month for my Apple Watch to have LTE connectivity). Whilst I don't take my phone running because I can use my Watch for music and can make calls on it while out, I don't think I'd ever be somewhere with my laptop and no phone.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    The problem with that is that MacOS has no concept of “low data mode”. If it has a connection, apps are going to use it. You can deny apps from being able to use data over cellular on iOS. Also, well behaved apps will usually give you an option to either not use data or in the case of streaming apps, use less data.
    - samatman 6y ago
      What you say is true. It is also true of tethering, which is quite popular. Now, I can tether my phone to my laptop. Indeed I did so fairly often, before global house arrest. But this is true of my iPad as well, and I opted for the cellular model instead. I'm glad I did, it's a better experience, hands down, especially when I'm traveling and want to conserve my phone's charge rather than burn it at maximum. But if you felt differently, Apple sells a WiFi only iPad, you could simply not pay the extra for the cellular model when checking out. This would almost certainly be true for this imaginary Macbook as well. I wouldn't buy it at all, I'm a professional developer with mild presbyopia, and purchased the standard-fancy model of the 16". But if I were an incoming freshman again? Bet I'd be pleading with my parents to get the cellular model. Unlike a touchscreen, an LTE modem doesn't demand any changes to a desktop operating system to provide a good user experience. Again, tethering. Cell bandwidth gets cheaper every year.
- charlesju 6y ago
  I primary drive the latest version and its my favorite mac to date (and I have the pro + imac + ipads + iphones). I have found that if you have a little bit of patience for loading, everything works just fine and the form factor beats everything for real work on the go. If they are really creating an ARM macbook, this will be a great product and this chassis is definitely the right one to start with.
- gumby 6y ago
  I loved my macbook (failed to survive a rainstorm, alas) and wrote a ton of code on that supposedly non-pro machine while traveling all over the world. I hope it does reappear as an apple silicon machine. However I suspect that if they can they’ll start with a “pro” machine that beats Intel specs as their first out of the gate, to demonstrate that it’s not a compromise option.
- namelosw 6y ago
  The 12-inch Macbook is my favorite Mac, despite I have multiple MacBook Pros and a MacPro! Although people might find it strange. It's simple, beautiful, extreme on the design, and also extremely slim, light, and quiet. I'm pretty sad that they've discontinued this product, I hope they'll bring it back with an Arm processor. It's almost as heavy and as thin as the iPad, but it is a full-sized computer with a full-sized keyboard. I can play with Emacs for 20 hours writing and scripting without charging. Also another unpopular opinion - I also love the butterfly keyboard of the 12-inch Macbook, it's quite uncomfortable but once I get used to it, I feel I can type pretty fast and it feels good. It feels firmer than the old Macbook Pro because the latter feels a little bit shaky. It also feels more clicky than the later Macbook Pro with the butterfly keyboard. It seems to me they have received too much criticism on the butterfly keyboard so they were trying to make it less edgy, but that made it lost the characteristics as well, thus they withdraw butterfly keyboard eventually.
- simply_sam 6y ago
  This is the laptop I have been using for 5 years now. As a web developer it is amazing that this 5year old mini laptop can drive a 4K screen through usb-c but driving too many stuff at once does slow it down a lot. Thinking about switching to the new iMac right now.
- ksec 6y ago
  I just wanted to point out, Butterfly Keyboard on MacBook wasn't much of a criticism at all. It was trade off that is possibly worth it in the name of the thinnest Notebook. Butterfly Keyboard get most of its criticism when it moved to MacBook Pro, Because now you are putting up with a keyboard that ~50% of the people find it to have worse typing experience at the expense of a possible ( or not as we have seen other vendor capable of doing without it ) 1mm decrease in thickness. Personally I still want the old 1.5mm Scissor Keyboard.
ogre_codes 6y ago
I'm guessing they will go right to the meat of things and upgrade one of their MacBook Pro models. That is right up the "Performance per watt" avenue which Apple claims their new silicon is best for. They are going to want to squash any rumors that these don't perform well right off the bat so I don't think they are going to be conservative here. For similar reasons, I don't think the iMac was ever slated to be the first Apple Silicon machine. The desktop form-factor just doesn't highlight the benefits of the new architecture the way a laptop does. Since they sell a lot more laptops than desktops, it's likely they don't even have a desktop specific CPU ready at launch time. That'll come next year or maybe even 2022 towards the tail end of their 2 year launch window.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  Yes, they need at least one Apple Silicon machine, which demonstrates that it is competitive for absolute CPU power and of course as a machine for all the developers. They do need not only a testing machine, but should be doing the development itself on an Apple Silicon machine. That is, why I would consider the rumor about a 13 or 14 inch MB Pro with Apple Silicon for highly plausible. The 16 inch would then follow later, with an even beefier CPU.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised to see the 13/14 and the 16 inch both released this year. That would mean 2 significantly different 16" MBPs in the same year. My thinking here is that it would be quite odd if they released a 14" MacBook Pro which is faster than the more expensive current 16" model.
    - _ph_ 6y ago
      The 16" was just refreshed and requires both a very beefy cpu and gpu. Not sure Apple will bring that with the first iteration. The 13" MB Pro has an integrated GPU, so that sounds more like a first step for Apple. Also, I think the Intel version of the 16" will stick around for quite a long time, might even be the last Intel machine sold in parallel to Apple Silicon, as developers and many others might require an Intel-based machine.
_ph_ 6y ago
There should be at least one mid-range machine coming out early, so that the developers have really a machine they can work on. Also, Apple needs to demonstrate that they can make some powerful CPUs beyond what they do already for the iPhone and iPad. So the rumor of the smaller MB Pro sounds plausible, the 16" would be migrated in a second generation of Apple Silicon, likewise the large iMacs and the Mac Pro.
drivebyubnt 6y ago
Consensus is that the first ARM devices will be 13.3-inch MacBook Pro and a new redesigned 24" iMac, based mostly on Ming Chi Kuo's report from just before WWDC2020. https://9to5mac.com/guides/ming-chi-kuo/ https://9to5mac.com/guides/ming-chi-kuo/
Veedrac 6y ago
The performance of their chips is good enough that it wouldn't make much sense not to update everything once silicon availability is assured. It would be ridiculous to keep their iMac slower than their Macbook Pro.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  MacBooks and iMacs are not direct competitors - one is a laptop, the other is a desktop computer. You can have up to 128 GB of RAM, 8 TB of SSD, and a beefy GPU in an iMac, something I bet won't be available on ARM for some time.
- skohan 6y ago
  I’m sure there are practical product development and supply chain reasons they would not be able to release an entire line of updated macs at the same time
protomyth 6y ago
Interesting how much emphasis they put on the camera, speakers, and mic People realized how crappy the camera (an well mic) was on Macs compared to other computers now that we are all video conferencing. Its sad that every PC user with a Logitech looked much better.
- madengr 6y ago
  The original Apple FireWire webcam was very good, with a large, motorized lens. Despite boasting higher resolution, I doubt many modern webcams are as good, especially integrated ones.
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    You can still judge the macbook cameras by looking at the images they deliver. They're bad, really bad. I suspect that apple's laptop guru / team moved to iPhone and never got backfilled, leaving the macbooks with budget flat cameras from 2007 or something.
    - bserge 6y ago
      High quality cameras have been around since ~2015 even on midrange smartphones. Why can't laptops get one of those? Is there a supply issue?
      - jjoonathan 6y ago
        I doubt there's a good reason. That's why I'm considering bad reasons like "it fell through bureaucratic floor-cracks."
      - EricE 6y ago
        Compare the thickness of the lid of your laptop to that of your phone. There is your answer - Physics is a harsh mistress!
  - Domenic_S 6y ago
    I had that camera. It was better than its contemporaries, but definitely not as good as even the mediocre built-in cameras today. Here's an article with screenshots: https://www.macworld.com/article/3018431/in-praise-of-the-glorious-wildly-over-engineered-isight-webcam.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3018431/in-praise-of-the-gl...
Shivetya 6y ago
Man, this will put a lot of us in a quandary. Buy this knowing the Apple Silicon is coming down the pipe or wait it out. I am disappointed no obvious changes to cooling have been made. Current i9 models can really spin up the fan as a number of owners have stated it one of the loudest Apple computers ever. Nano Glass is around $500 up charge which does not seem bad but I seem to recall it has special cleaning requirements so be careful if you have family or friends who are touch prone. SSD upgrade from 512 to 1TB is reasonable as well, around $200
- Dunedan 6y ago
  > SSD upgrade from 512 to 1TB is reasonable as well, around $200 Reasonable for Apple maybe, but for $200 you already get a pretty decent 1TB retail SSD.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Crucial P1 NVME 1TB is around 100 Euros in my neck of the woods so charging twice that for an 512GB upgrade is bonkers in my book but clearly I'm not the intended customer base. I guess for companies flush with cash where every employees salary is in the six figure ballpark, the price of Mac configs don't raise any eyebrows in the list of expenses but at least in all companies I've worked so far if I'd have suggested we buy Macs, the bean counters would have had a fit.
    - MikusR 6y ago
      That Apple ssd is almost twice as fast as that Crucial.
- pier25 6y ago
  > I am disappointed no obvious changes to cooling have been made Same. I own a 2017 5K model with an i5 and the terrible cooling is my only gripe with it. It's totally fine for bursty workloads, but once you get into a light sustained workload (eg: music production) temps go to +70ºC and the fans become quite annoying.
- 6y ago
cactus2093 6y ago
I think this means iMac will be one of the first computers getting Apple Silicon, otherwise it's weird that they're updating the 27" without updating the smaller iMac. There have been rumors about an updated smaller iMac which will shrink the bezels and basically look like an ipad pro on a stand, with a screen size increase to 24" and Apple Silicon, coming either later this year or early 2021. I do wonder why separate the smaller and larger iMacs lifecycles, maybe because the desktop-level Apple Silicon chips aren't ready yet? That would make sense especially if they're aiming to replace the AMD GPUs even on the top of the line larger iMac and use integrated graphics there too.
timsneath 6y ago
I can imagine two priority devices for them to feature from the start: - A super-lightweight 12" Macbook-like device that lets them demonstrate how Apple Silicon opens up new categories and form factors: small, powerful and amazing battery life - A developer machine (MBP or similar) will be necessary. There are precious few DTKs out there, and they need more developers to be running Apple Silicon. I can't imagine them not shipping this in the first wave.
rattray 6y ago
Maybe a 2-in-1 windows competitor? (eg; Surface, Yoga, etc). Their new iPad Pro took a big step in that direction with the keyboard, but it still doesn't have macos and mac apps. Not sure whether they'd position it more as a "Macbook Touch" or "iPad Mac"...
Tagbert 6y ago
There is a lot of speculation that they might have a replacement MacBook 12” at launch. It would be a good fit. That one is not listed in any of the stronger rumors though. The strongest rumors are for a MacBook Pro 13/14 and a 24” iMac. The 24” iMac suggests that they will switch to new designs with the new chips. I don’t think that Apple will restrict their new chips to just a little MacBook. It would make it look like that is all they can do. They are going to want to come in strong and have a range of chips on different machines. Some with high efficiency and some with high performance. They seem confident and I suspect they will pull this off.
iamstephenliu 6y ago
IIRC the iMac and the PowerBook were among the last computers to get an update after Apple announced that they were switching to Intel, and they were also the first computers to get Intel processors. So this probably doesn't mean anything in that regard.

godzillabrennus 6y ago

I think the MacBook they had discontinued is rumored to be making an Apple Silicon powered return.

dbbk 6y ago
There's no 'intel' to support that as far as I'm aware though, just sensible speculation.

dijit 6y ago

It will almost certainly be a low end macbook. In fact, there's a non-pro 'macbook'[0] that already exists which would be perfect, it was discontinued a year ago, but used ultra-low power CPUs. In fact when they were talking about them (prior to release) they thought they would have ARM CPU's back then. They are fanless and have a 5W thermal envelope, which fits in with the current A12X too. The major criticisms of the design at the time was: Butterfly keyboard, the Single USB-C port and the speed of the device (Intel CORE-M is truly, truly painful). But for a $600-$700 machine with an ARM CPU? that's insanely competitive, and is in-line with the "basic" macbook branding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_(2015%E2%80%932019) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_(2015%E2%80%932019)

varjag 6y ago
I have a later 2017 revision of that one, never really had an issue with CPU speed. Mine has RAM maxed to 16Gb though, perhaps that helps. It's a great machine: a real computer but with iPad pro dimensions.
- dijit 6y ago
  The "best" CPU that comes in that lineup is the Intel Core i7-7Y75. I have a GPD P2 Max[0] which also has 16GiB of ram and a Intel Core m3-8100Y... Not to brag but my CPU does seem to bench higher[1][2], and for me it can be painfully slow at times.. Though perhaps the OS is doing me no favours (Sway+Arch/Chromium) [0]: http://gpd.hk/gpdp2max http://gpd.hk/gpdp2max [1]: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-7Y75-vs-Intel-m3-8100Y/2880vs3367 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-7Y75-vs-Intel-... [2]: https://askgeek.io/en/cpus/vs/Intel_Core-m3-8100Y-vs-Intel_Core-i7-7Y75 https://askgeek.io/en/cpus/vs/Intel_Core-m3-8100Y-vs-Intel_C...
  - varjag 6y ago
    I've used some fanless Ideapad before this with Core M as well, let's just say there is no comparison. With that one a tiling WM was very much a necessity. My office PC is a very generously specced desktop, but for user interaction tasks like coding, browsing etc there is no appreciable difference with MB12.
  - stock_toaster 6y ago
    I think the 12" 2017 model with the i5 was the best one. The i7 got a little hot, and the m3 was pretty slow. The i5 (I'm still using it today and it works great) doesn't suffer from heat issues nearly as bad as the i7.
- jquery 6y ago
  I’ve been force-feeding myself the new iPad Pro with magic keyboard as my primary laptop for the past few months (why? So I can experience what kids are largely experiencing these days, and empathize). It’s definitely a “real computer”, just optimized in a different way than I’m used to. Doesn’t feel like a budget computer either, it’s incredibly powerful for something that uses less than 18 watts and has no fan. IPadOS has some rough edges but they’ve been getting quickly smoothed out.
  - varjag 6y ago
    Well I very much need Emacs and Unix-like environment for work, so iPad doesn't quite cut it. That said I've got a 11" Pro: mostly as a portable second display via Sidecar for MB12 but also some pen-based apps like Sketchr3d. It's nice and if you have a workflow that suits it, no doubt it's usable.
efficax 6y ago
the 12" macbook is my favorite laptop of all time. Mine is the 2016 version and it's starting to feel dated and I'm hoping that they rerelease this on the new silicon first. I'll be smashing the buy button the day it's out.
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  Mine is a Macbook pro 2012 and it is still phenomenal. 2yrs ago, my screen used to flicker. I contacted everyone and they said 'change motherboard' and Mac support people were like buy a new laptop. so I kept the laptop in cupboard for a few months and I open it to check if it works, had decided to sell it and buy a new one and viola, it was working perfectly fine. ~5yrs with no issues.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrisweekly 6y ago
    2012 mbp15r, maxxed out specs at the time (16GB DDR3, 500MB SSD), daily driver for eight(!) years, and has maybe 5 tiny dead pixels as the only sign it's the worse for wear. Current gig requires use of client-provided 2019 mbp16r with approximately the same size, weight and perf. I don't hate it, but it's hard to believe my ancient personal box is about as capable. They really don't make em like they used to.
    - thewhitetulip 6y ago
      >I don't hate it, but it's hard to believe my ancient personal box is about as capable Exactly my point. The funny thing is, I bought the 2012 model at half the price of the new models and I have 0 complaints about it. No fancy keyboard issue, no fancy thermal issue. Nothing. and to think that since then, they've made more problems than laptops! They really don't make them like they used to. I just want a better battery backup that's it. I get 6-8hrs because I did a lot of research about how Li batteries drain (it is best if you do not let it drain below 50% because Li batteries' lifecycle depends on the high-low charge discharge cycles so if you keep discharging battery to 0% then you're scrwed in a few years) I'll buy the 2012 model again, if this one dies out, but won't ever buy the latest models.
tzs 6y ago
> Single USB-C port Are their hubs yet that can turn one USB C port into several? Or do they still only turn one USB C port into several USB A ports? A couple years ago what I read was that the hold up was that this required more complicated chipsets that would not be available for a few months and would be expensive. More recently, I've read that this won't happen until USB4.
- dijit 6y ago
  Yes, my girlfriend works with a 2 TB port macbook pro and has a dock like this: https://www.webhallen.com/se/product/313438-ALOGIC-USB-C-Dock-Wave-Qi-laddare-USB-C-hub https://www.webhallen.com/se/product/313438-ALOGIC-USB-C-Doc... She uses it with a USB keyboard/mouse and PS4 controller and an external 1440p screen.. works without issue.
  - epistasis 6y ago
    That appears to only have a single C port. It's a strange thing, you can get these super complicated docking stations with all sorts of different ports, but can't get a 4-port hub that's only usb-c connectors. At least neither tzs nor I have found such hubs.
    - dijit 6y ago
      Completely misread your original comment, I apologise. You are right, I do not see them.. I wonder if that's for a particular reason. :\
    - Someone 6y ago
      Googling “usb-c to usb-c multiport hub” gives me plenty of hits, for example https://www.sitecom.com/en/usb-c-hub-4-port/cn-386/p/1881 https://www.sitecom.com/en/usb-c-hub-4-port/cn-386/p/1881: “Turn your USB-C port into 3 ultrafast USB-C ports and 1 USB-C Power Delivery Port”
      - epistasis 6y ago
        Oh wow, thanks for that link, I have never come across that! Also, when I google with your phrase, there are no hits like that on the first page. I wonder if google is customizing my searches away from what I want...
newsclues 6y ago
The Mac mini and MacBook will be first
- savoytruffle 6y ago
  The Mac mini is a vital part of the lineup, but it is so much of a utility computer. That's why they utilized it for the Developer Transition Kit. It's hard to market it since it's nearly invisible on a desk and there's no Apple monitor that is reasonable to pair with it. For 'Apple Silicon' for xmas, one would assume several notebooks and maybe something like an iMac with a built-in display.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> But for a $600-$700 machine with an ARM CPU? that's insanely competitive, and is in-line with the "basic" macbook branding. I'm skeptical Apple's introduction of their high performance CPUs exclusively on a low end device. A super light/ high performance 12ish inch machine seems right up their ally, but they don't want the new CPU associated with being a low-end "Intel Pentium Gold" type device. There might be a lower end ultra-thin laptop released, but they are going to go big and push out a high performance CPU right out the gate. They didn't launch their 64 bit A series CPU on a secondary device, they won't launch this on a secondary device either.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  I've heard rumours of a low end 12" MacBook, along with a 13" MacBook pro targeting developers as launch devices. No idea if it's true, but it would certainly make a lot of sense.
  - Yeri 6y ago
    With the Intel release they also released two devices at the same time (MBP and iMac, and other models quickly followed). I’d assume them to do the same: a high end (MBP?) and low end device (MB? MBA?); that’s where ARM will shine first (mobile: battery life; maybe even integrating a modem with esims). Desktops will follow later.
  - skohan 6y ago
    I don’t know if they would actually do it, but that would be an awesome way to launch: one category-defining device in terms of portibility and performance, and one super high end device to create a halo effect around the new processors
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Yes, this would be a good strategy. The "low end" one would likely ship with the same CPU as the next-model iPad. The higher end one would be their new shiny high performance designed-for-MacBook CPU.
jkestner 6y ago
Optics dictate that Apple show the superiority of the new silicon, and it wouldn't want it immediately pigeonholed as something like Surface X, a compromised curiosity. Apple's been consistent about ~10 hours of battery life for a while. They've hit their spec and think that most people don't need more in typical usage. So they'll be able to shave battery volume down to continue their trend of thinner without sacrificing other specs. The recently discontinued MacBook was a vision statement that the hardware could not quite reach, much like the first MacBook Air. Here, I think that statement realized would be a MacBook Pro that is as thin as that MacBook, and is still notably faster than the current MacBook Pro.
- bredren 6y ago
  I see no need for a standalone Macbook to negatively portray Apple Silcon. "Macbook" is the heart of the entire PC portable line for Apple. "Macbook"is the grounding of the brand itself. I think Apple will release the Macbook as the first Apple Silicon machine because of the optics of confidently putting the hardware at the symbolic heart of the entire portable line. I do not think the 12" that was discontinued should be thought of also as where the machine will be picked up in terms of form factor. This is not how Apple behaves, when tech shifts or they don't like where they left off, they change direction. (i.e. the Mac Pro trashcan -> modern Mac Pro) Apple Silicon will allow Apple to reintroduce the Macbook as a compelling machine addressing many customer types. This base machine would pave to eliminate the Macbook Air and redesign the Macbook Pro. With a few models of Macbook and Macbook Pro the portable product line will be simplified and clean up the confusing price / feature / performance comparison problems that exist today.
  - Veedrac 6y ago
    To the skeptics, Apple Silicon is about thin laptops and fat margins. It makes no sense for Apple to reinforce this. Apple's silicon team is exceptional, and they should prove it.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      And they will, delivering thin, light, long-lasting laptops, with high performance and the fattest of margins. The only people they need to prove themselves to are shareholders, and this is gonna do the trick. In many ways the same was true in 2006.
Razengan 6y ago
> Intel CORE-M is truly, truly painful No, it wasn’t. I used to ru Xcode, iOS Simulator, World of Warcraft, League of Legends on the fanless MacBook with 8 GB of RAM just fine enough.
- pvarangot 6y ago
  Lightroom or Ableton are almost impossible to run on a CORE-M. It's painful specially after a 10/15 minute editing session when the fans kick in and not only you have to deal with a noisy laptop but also your CPU gets underclocked and switching between your full screen Lightroom or Ableton back to Chrome sometimes takes more than 30 seconds. WoW and LoL are very lightweight compared to pro image or sound editing software, specially because they are doing a lot of the heavy stuff in your GPU. Even the Mac Pro is also kinda bad with that software to be honest, specially if you spend more than half an hour using it, because of the thermal issues.
- tmpz22 6y ago
  You can both be right. Machine defects, or just aging, can cause the battery to expand and internals to coat with dust - causing thermal throtting, excessive fan usage, and significantly worst performance, after even just a year or so.
samatman 6y ago
Agreed, and I want to add one prediction (which is maybe just a hope): It will have a SIM card slot, and get at least 12 hours of battery life while using LTE. This would be a truly compelling product, filling a niche Apple has tried to inhabit a couple of times, with the distinct possibility of getting it right this time.
- lsllc 6y ago
  With tethering, I'm not sure I want a SIM card in my laptop! If nothing else, AT&T will charge me extra for that (I'm already paying extra per month for my Apple Watch to have LTE connectivity). Whilst I don't take my phone running because I can use my Watch for music and can make calls on it while out, I don't think I'd ever be somewhere with my laptop and no phone.
- scarface74 6y ago
  The problem with that is that MacOS has no concept of “low data mode”. If it has a connection, apps are going to use it. You can deny apps from being able to use data over cellular on iOS. Also, well behaved apps will usually give you an option to either not use data or in the case of streaming apps, use less data.
  - samatman 6y ago
    What you say is true. It is also true of tethering, which is quite popular. Now, I can tether my phone to my laptop. Indeed I did so fairly often, before global house arrest. But this is true of my iPad as well, and I opted for the cellular model instead. I'm glad I did, it's a better experience, hands down, especially when I'm traveling and want to conserve my phone's charge rather than burn it at maximum. But if you felt differently, Apple sells a WiFi only iPad, you could simply not pay the extra for the cellular model when checking out. This would almost certainly be true for this imaginary Macbook as well. I wouldn't buy it at all, I'm a professional developer with mild presbyopia, and purchased the standard-fancy model of the 16". But if I were an incoming freshman again? Bet I'd be pleading with my parents to get the cellular model. Unlike a touchscreen, an LTE modem doesn't demand any changes to a desktop operating system to provide a good user experience. Again, tethering. Cell bandwidth gets cheaper every year.
charlesju 6y ago
I primary drive the latest version and its my favorite mac to date (and I have the pro + imac + ipads + iphones). I have found that if you have a little bit of patience for loading, everything works just fine and the form factor beats everything for real work on the go. If they are really creating an ARM macbook, this will be a great product and this chassis is definitely the right one to start with.
gumby 6y ago
I loved my macbook (failed to survive a rainstorm, alas) and wrote a ton of code on that supposedly non-pro machine while traveling all over the world. I hope it does reappear as an apple silicon machine. However I suspect that if they can they’ll start with a “pro” machine that beats Intel specs as their first out of the gate, to demonstrate that it’s not a compromise option.
namelosw 6y ago
The 12-inch Macbook is my favorite Mac, despite I have multiple MacBook Pros and a MacPro! Although people might find it strange. It's simple, beautiful, extreme on the design, and also extremely slim, light, and quiet. I'm pretty sad that they've discontinued this product, I hope they'll bring it back with an Arm processor. It's almost as heavy and as thin as the iPad, but it is a full-sized computer with a full-sized keyboard. I can play with Emacs for 20 hours writing and scripting without charging. Also another unpopular opinion - I also love the butterfly keyboard of the 12-inch Macbook, it's quite uncomfortable but once I get used to it, I feel I can type pretty fast and it feels good. It feels firmer than the old Macbook Pro because the latter feels a little bit shaky. It also feels more clicky than the later Macbook Pro with the butterfly keyboard. It seems to me they have received too much criticism on the butterfly keyboard so they were trying to make it less edgy, but that made it lost the characteristics as well, thus they withdraw butterfly keyboard eventually.
simply_sam 6y ago
This is the laptop I have been using for 5 years now. As a web developer it is amazing that this 5year old mini laptop can drive a 4K screen through usb-c but driving too many stuff at once does slow it down a lot. Thinking about switching to the new iMac right now.
ksec 6y ago
I just wanted to point out, Butterfly Keyboard on MacBook wasn't much of a criticism at all. It was trade off that is possibly worth it in the name of the thinnest Notebook. Butterfly Keyboard get most of its criticism when it moved to MacBook Pro, Because now you are putting up with a keyboard that ~50% of the people find it to have worse typing experience at the expense of a possible ( or not as we have seen other vendor capable of doing without it ) 1mm decrease in thickness. Personally I still want the old 1.5mm Scissor Keyboard.

ogre_codes 6y ago

I'm guessing they will go right to the meat of things and upgrade one of their MacBook Pro models. That is right up the "Performance per watt" avenue which Apple claims their new silicon is best for. They are going to want to squash any rumors that these don't perform well right off the bat so I don't think they are going to be conservative here. For similar reasons, I don't think the iMac was ever slated to be the first Apple Silicon machine. The desktop form-factor just doesn't highlight the benefits of the new architecture the way a laptop does. Since they sell a lot more laptops than desktops, it's likely they don't even have a desktop specific CPU ready at launch time. That'll come next year or maybe even 2022 towards the tail end of their 2 year launch window.

_ph_ 6y ago
Yes, they need at least one Apple Silicon machine, which demonstrates that it is competitive for absolute CPU power and of course as a machine for all the developers. They do need not only a testing machine, but should be doing the development itself on an Apple Silicon machine. That is, why I would consider the rumor about a 13 or 14 inch MB Pro with Apple Silicon for highly plausible. The 16 inch would then follow later, with an even beefier CPU.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised to see the 13/14 and the 16 inch both released this year. That would mean 2 significantly different 16" MBPs in the same year. My thinking here is that it would be quite odd if they released a 14" MacBook Pro which is faster than the more expensive current 16" model.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    The 16" was just refreshed and requires both a very beefy cpu and gpu. Not sure Apple will bring that with the first iteration. The 13" MB Pro has an integrated GPU, so that sounds more like a first step for Apple. Also, I think the Intel version of the 16" will stick around for quite a long time, might even be the last Intel machine sold in parallel to Apple Silicon, as developers and many others might require an Intel-based machine.

_ph_ 6y ago

There should be at least one mid-range machine coming out early, so that the developers have really a machine they can work on. Also, Apple needs to demonstrate that they can make some powerful CPUs beyond what they do already for the iPhone and iPad. So the rumor of the smaller MB Pro sounds plausible, the 16" would be migrated in a second generation of Apple Silicon, likewise the large iMacs and the Mac Pro.

drivebyubnt 6y ago

Consensus is that the first ARM devices will be 13.3-inch MacBook Pro and a new redesigned 24" iMac, based mostly on Ming Chi Kuo's report from just before WWDC2020. https://9to5mac.com/guides/ming-chi-kuo/ https://9to5mac.com/guides/ming-chi-kuo/

Veedrac 6y ago

The performance of their chips is good enough that it wouldn't make much sense not to update everything once silicon availability is assured. It would be ridiculous to keep their iMac slower than their Macbook Pro.

rbanffy 6y ago
MacBooks and iMacs are not direct competitors - one is a laptop, the other is a desktop computer. You can have up to 128 GB of RAM, 8 TB of SSD, and a beefy GPU in an iMac, something I bet won't be available on ARM for some time.
skohan 6y ago
I’m sure there are practical product development and supply chain reasons they would not be able to release an entire line of updated macs at the same time

protomyth 6y ago

Interesting how much emphasis they put on the camera, speakers, and mic People realized how crappy the camera (an well mic) was on Macs compared to other computers now that we are all video conferencing. Its sad that every PC user with a Logitech looked much better.

madengr 6y ago
The original Apple FireWire webcam was very good, with a large, motorized lens. Despite boasting higher resolution, I doubt many modern webcams are as good, especially integrated ones.
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  You can still judge the macbook cameras by looking at the images they deliver. They're bad, really bad. I suspect that apple's laptop guru / team moved to iPhone and never got backfilled, leaving the macbooks with budget flat cameras from 2007 or something.
  - bserge 6y ago
    High quality cameras have been around since ~2015 even on midrange smartphones. Why can't laptops get one of those? Is there a supply issue?
    - jjoonathan 6y ago
      I doubt there's a good reason. That's why I'm considering bad reasons like "it fell through bureaucratic floor-cracks."
    - EricE 6y ago
      Compare the thickness of the lid of your laptop to that of your phone. There is your answer - Physics is a harsh mistress!
- Domenic_S 6y ago
  I had that camera. It was better than its contemporaries, but definitely not as good as even the mediocre built-in cameras today. Here's an article with screenshots: https://www.macworld.com/article/3018431/in-praise-of-the-glorious-wildly-over-engineered-isight-webcam.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3018431/in-praise-of-the-gl...

Shivetya 6y ago

Man, this will put a lot of us in a quandary. Buy this knowing the Apple Silicon is coming down the pipe or wait it out. I am disappointed no obvious changes to cooling have been made. Current i9 models can really spin up the fan as a number of owners have stated it one of the loudest Apple computers ever. Nano Glass is around $500 up charge which does not seem bad but I seem to recall it has special cleaning requirements so be careful if you have family or friends who are touch prone. SSD upgrade from 512 to 1TB is reasonable as well, around $200

Dunedan 6y ago
> SSD upgrade from 512 to 1TB is reasonable as well, around $200 Reasonable for Apple maybe, but for $200 you already get a pretty decent 1TB retail SSD.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Crucial P1 NVME 1TB is around 100 Euros in my neck of the woods so charging twice that for an 512GB upgrade is bonkers in my book but clearly I'm not the intended customer base. I guess for companies flush with cash where every employees salary is in the six figure ballpark, the price of Mac configs don't raise any eyebrows in the list of expenses but at least in all companies I've worked so far if I'd have suggested we buy Macs, the bean counters would have had a fit.
  - MikusR 6y ago
    That Apple ssd is almost twice as fast as that Crucial.
pier25 6y ago
> I am disappointed no obvious changes to cooling have been made Same. I own a 2017 5K model with an i5 and the terrible cooling is my only gripe with it. It's totally fine for bursty workloads, but once you get into a light sustained workload (eg: music production) temps go to +70ºC and the fans become quite annoying.
6y ago

cactus2093 6y ago

I think this means iMac will be one of the first computers getting Apple Silicon, otherwise it's weird that they're updating the 27" without updating the smaller iMac. There have been rumors about an updated smaller iMac which will shrink the bezels and basically look like an ipad pro on a stand, with a screen size increase to 24" and Apple Silicon, coming either later this year or early 2021. I do wonder why separate the smaller and larger iMacs lifecycles, maybe because the desktop-level Apple Silicon chips aren't ready yet? That would make sense especially if they're aiming to replace the AMD GPUs even on the top of the line larger iMac and use integrated graphics there too.

timsneath 6y ago

I can imagine two priority devices for them to feature from the start: - A super-lightweight 12" Macbook-like device that lets them demonstrate how Apple Silicon opens up new categories and form factors: small, powerful and amazing battery life - A developer machine (MBP or similar) will be necessary. There are precious few DTKs out there, and they need more developers to be running Apple Silicon. I can't imagine them not shipping this in the first wave.

rattray 6y ago

Maybe a 2-in-1 windows competitor? (eg; Surface, Yoga, etc). Their new iPad Pro took a big step in that direction with the keyboard, but it still doesn't have macos and mac apps. Not sure whether they'd position it more as a "Macbook Touch" or "iPad Mac"...

Tagbert 6y ago

There is a lot of speculation that they might have a replacement MacBook 12” at launch. It would be a good fit. That one is not listed in any of the stronger rumors though. The strongest rumors are for a MacBook Pro 13/14 and a 24” iMac. The 24” iMac suggests that they will switch to new designs with the new chips. I don’t think that Apple will restrict their new chips to just a little MacBook. It would make it look like that is all they can do. They are going to want to come in strong and have a range of chips on different machines. Some with high efficiency and some with high performance. They seem confident and I suspect they will pull this off.

iamstephenliu 6y ago

IIRC the iMac and the PowerBook were among the last computers to get an update after Apple announced that they were switching to Intel, and they were also the first computers to get Intel processors. So this probably doesn't mean anything in that regard.