7 ms·

Telemetry isn't even the nasty one. Look for "activity" in your DNS logs. Just try to block that... All the Windows 10 machines (home and pro) on your networ

Telemetry isn't even the nasty one. Look for "activity" in your DNS logs. Just try to block that... All the Windows 10 machines (home and pro) on your network will freeze up and hang for extended periods of time. Microsoft wants to know every time you spawn an application, what it was, who launched it. It doesn't matter how you block it, NXDOMAIN, REFUSE, fake IP, null route, all of those will cause machines to hang. A tcp-reset will reduce the impact a little. [Edit] MS may have wised up and consolidated the activity endpoints / vips into another endpoint. You may have to clear cache on the PC and your router, reboot and watch DNS requests as you launch applications to see where they moved. To stop this behavior requires registry changes unless you are on Enterprise or LTSC in which case you can use GPO. There are some free programs that will do the registry tweaks for you. Here is a video talking about manually changing some things [1] and they link to free tools that can do the changes as well [2]. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgW7iXejfqQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgW7iXejfqQ [2] - https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

at_a_remove 6y ago
Ah, LTSC ... never has one of my hunch-based technical decisions kept paying off again and again. if only I knew the right people instead of having to get licenses in very sketchy ways.
- jabroni_salad 6y ago
  Just get yourself a volume license and talk to a distributor. You do not need any crazy volume. I was able to get it in place, legitimately, for a metal fabricator that has maybe 20 computers total not including their operational technology (CNC devices) that they wanted LTSC for. https://www.cdw.com/search/?key=ltsc&searchscope=all&sr=1 https://www.cdw.com/search/?key=ltsc&searchscope=all&sr=1
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    As just a guy? Not so easy. I'm not a company, I'm just a person.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      It looks like CDW, at least, sells by the individual license, to judge from the search results at that link. Top one is "Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019 - upgrade license - 1 license".
      - mjcl 6y ago
        That link is for an Open License. The MS Open License program allows you to purchase volume licenses individually, but the initial MS Open License order must be for at least 5 licenses (of something).
        EvanAnderson 6y ago
        CDW will happily sell you once license of LTSC and 4 of the cheapest SKU in the catalog (I don't know what that is, currently-- in the past it has been stuff like $5 DVD playback licenses) to get you over the minimum purchase qty.
        fl0wenol 6y ago
        I did exactly this with PC Connection and got into the Open license program. What's great is that you get 50 activations out of the box, so while it's a bit of money up front, it effectively allows you to use a bunch of systems and VMs internally without worry. No one is going to say anything about this especially if it's for personal use. If you were supporting multiple users in a small business environment definitely make sure you buy as many Windows SKUs as you have end users to be compliant, however. All of this becomes moot once you have >25 clients; then you can transition to using volume licensing and it's essentially unlimited. It still tracks it though and Microsoft can ask to look at it, especially if you change from Open to Select or some other volume pricing agreement, so keep that in mind.
  - ShamelessC 6y ago
    "Just", as if it were so easy. What kind of suggestion is this? None of us are trying to provide an operating system for a whole company. We need exactly one license.
- gruez 6y ago
  >if only I knew the right people instead of having to get licenses in very sketchy ways. You can buy it off the shelf. It's going to set you back $300+ dollars, but it's not hard. https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst...
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    Crazy that this information is so ... obscured. I had actually contacted Microsoft a year ago trying to do things the up-and-up way, only to get crickets in return. And still, bafflingly, what you found? That's an upgrade license. It's as if the idea of people putting together their own PCs just never occurs to Microsoft.
    - techdevangelist 6y ago
      The target demo of those buying licenses wouldn’t be building workstations, they are buying prebuilt whatever and upgrading the entitlements from there. MS very explicitly doesn’t target these releases to consumers, it’s entirely possible to do it by adding the 4 x useless products to get over the 5 x volume requirement. It’s sad, but not shocking they didn’t cover the edge case of a custom builder. If you were a firm building machines, you’d again get a special setup and do provisioning and key burning into bios etc.
      - at_a_remove 6y ago
        It is a shame. I maintain my own PCs and the computers for a handful of people who are not technically ept (a friend who is rubbish with computers, my mother, and an eighty-seven year old woman who reacts poorly to the random UX changes Microsoft likes to push out). I cannot help but think that there are a lot of "dark matter" sysadmins plunking away like me, just maintaining machines for friends or tiny businesses, and that we're underserved as a market segment.
- Scramblejams 6y ago
  LTSC's the best of the Windows options, for sure. But LTSC 2019 is too out-of-date to run the upcoming MSFS. :-( LTSC 2022 here I come!
  - bserge 6y ago
    MSFS? The flight sim? Will it really not work with an older Windows version? I kinda remember running newer games on XP or Vista with some simple tweaks. It's not like Win10 changed that much for the past year or so.
    - Scramblejams 6y ago
      MSFS system requirements say 1909 is required[0]. LTSC 2019 is on 1809. I don't believe it's possible to upgrade LTSC 2019 to 1909. Happy to be wrong, though. [0] https://www.techspot.com/news/84931-microsoft-flight-simulator-system-requirements-revealed.html https://www.techspot.com/news/84931-microsoft-flight-simulat...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
gruez 6y ago
Isn't gpedit.msc available on pro?
- LinuxBender 6y ago
  Yes, but it won't work for activity on pro, only Enterprise and LTSC. You have to do registry changes to get rid of that on Pro and Home.
zzz61831 6y ago
What if you don't provide NATed internet to Windows machines at all and only let specific apps to connect to it through manually specified local proxies and maybe some whitelisted routes. Because shutting down internet access doesn't seem to cause any freezes for me.
- LinuxBender 6y ago
  Yes if you disable the internet it won't try to talk to the activity endpoint. You could probably trick windows into thinking the internet is always down. I don't know what else this might break, but the cleaner way is to do the registry changes.
noja 6y ago
Isn't that a GDPR violation?
- msla 6y ago
  Microsoft isn't an EU company. I'm sure the EU is perfectly free to block use of Windows if this is a GDPR violation, given that blocking use of Windows is the only way to ensure the GDPR violations are not continuing, as this is closed-source software.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Microsoft absolutely has subsidiaries in the EU. https://goo.gl/maps/bxPrCJEoygA7KE377 https://goo.gl/maps/bxPrCJEoygA7KE377 https://goo.gl/maps/srGMYK9JFdG67J8x5 https://goo.gl/maps/srGMYK9JFdG67J8x5
    - msla 6y ago
      It could spin those off completely or close them down. It probably won't, but it has that option.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        That still doesn’t give them immunity from GDPR. The EU considers the GDPR to apply to any entity globally. If the EU wanted to go after them, they likely wouldn’t even be able to transact any business in the EU. But Microsoft is never going to become a fugitive from EU law anyway.
  - yohannparis 6y ago
    GDPR does not apply whether a company is in E.U. or not, but if a user/consumer of a service is in the E.U. So this will be a violation of the GDPR only for Windows users in the E.U. But I'm sure all that tracking is explain in the middle of 100 pages long agreement that you have to agree to install and use Windows.
Someone1234 6y ago
I just tried this, and wasn't able to reproduce freezing (I blocked both domains on my network's resolver). nslookup replies "Non-existent domain" for both (although the first one didn't exist before I blocked it, but blocked it anyway). My "Diagnostic Data" is set to "Basic" in the normal Settings UI. I'm on the "2004" release of Windows 10. Anything I have to do to experience this? What kind of applications/apps are causing the freeze?
- LinuxBender 6y ago
  Clear the DNS cache on your windows machines and home router first perhaps. Block it, then reboot after clearing cache. They may have even further consolidated these endpoints into something else. I went through this exercise last year after network debugging a family members game that was hanging, only to find Akamai was down in my area for the activity endpoint. It is a never-ending arms race of whack-a-mole. Another thing you can do is clear cache on your windows machine and router, then reboot and watch DNS requests as you launch applications. If they merged activity into a common endpoint, you should still see the requests.
  - Someone1234 6y ago
    Done and done. Still, haven't experienced freezing. "activity.windows.com" was previously cached at the network resolver (before block/cache clear), but hasn't re-appeared and there's nothing obvious that replaces it during app or application launch. The machine has been both cleared and rebooked just for good measure (as it could be cached inside the telemetry service itself).
    - LinuxBender 6y ago
      No idea then. They have been moving things around and in likelihood may have merged the activity endpoint into another endpoint. You may have to watch DNS activity as you launch applications. I've helped a handful of gamers debug this one but I do not have a windows 10 machine to test with. I'm sure engineers at MS are watching this thread and will adapt again. Or maybe someone at MS can use a throw-away account here to say what changes they have made recently.
kevinoid 6y ago
Since both the video and Shutup10 cover lots of different settings, I'm guessing you are referring to sending "activity history"[1] to Microsoft specifically? Was disabling it via Settings[2] not sufficient? Is there another registry change that is required? Or was DNS filtering the only solution you found workable? [1]: https://support.microsoft.com/kb/4468227 https://support.microsoft.com/kb/4468227 [2]: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/100341-enable-disable-collect-activity-history-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/100341-enable-disable-co...
- LinuxBender 6y ago
  Disabling it in Windows on Pro and Home is not sufficient. Registry changes are the only way to completely turn off activity history. It is really disingenuous of MS to suggest you have the option to disable any of the telemetry. The wording they should use is "reduce". Turning everything off via the privacy controls in Windows will significantly reduce how chatty the box is. DNS filtering does not work any more as far as I can see. It appears they have wised up and are consolidating endpoints so that you can't block it that way any more.
  - kevinoid 6y ago
    Thanks for the info. What registry changes are required?
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    So, I've been pretty aggressive in all the Windows 10 settings, and I have a PiHole set up for my DNS. What I've noticed is that my PiHole barely lights up for Windows 10, especially compared to how loud it lit up for Windows 8, after all of those privacy violating features from Windows 10 were shoved into Windows 8. It seems, at least from my experimentation, that Windows 10 is actually quieter when you put all the privacy stuff up - either that, or the other ones are so inactive that they don't show up in my PiHole. Current statistics show least popular top permitted domain on my computer to be hit 258 times a day and nothing above it is Microsoft. Top Blocked Domains from Microsoft include: settings-win.data.microsoft.com ( > 100 ) v10.events.data.microsoft.com ( > 80 ) It's pretty darn quiet. I think Windows 8, after the telemetry updates, was was many times that. edit: small disclosure: I did work for Microsoft around 7 years ago. I did work in the Windows org, though. These thoughts are my own and I very much hate the tracking that Microsoft does, even at the bare minimum without a toggle switch to turn it all of.
redrobein 6y ago
I have my firewall blocking everything not a whitelist by default and I have no performance/network issues.

at_a_remove 6y ago

Ah, LTSC ... never has one of my hunch-based technical decisions kept paying off again and again. if only I knew the right people instead of having to get licenses in very sketchy ways.

jabroni_salad 6y ago
Just get yourself a volume license and talk to a distributor. You do not need any crazy volume. I was able to get it in place, legitimately, for a metal fabricator that has maybe 20 computers total not including their operational technology (CNC devices) that they wanted LTSC for. https://www.cdw.com/search/?key=ltsc&searchscope=all&sr=1 https://www.cdw.com/search/?key=ltsc&searchscope=all&sr=1
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  As just a guy? Not so easy. I'm not a company, I'm just a person.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    It looks like CDW, at least, sells by the individual license, to judge from the search results at that link. Top one is "Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019 - upgrade license - 1 license".
    - mjcl 6y ago
      That link is for an Open License. The MS Open License program allows you to purchase volume licenses individually, but the initial MS Open License order must be for at least 5 licenses (of something).
      - EvanAnderson 6y ago
        CDW will happily sell you once license of LTSC and 4 of the cheapest SKU in the catalog (I don't know what that is, currently-- in the past it has been stuff like $5 DVD playback licenses) to get you over the minimum purchase qty.
        fl0wenol 6y ago
        I did exactly this with PC Connection and got into the Open license program. What's great is that you get 50 activations out of the box, so while it's a bit of money up front, it effectively allows you to use a bunch of systems and VMs internally without worry. No one is going to say anything about this especially if it's for personal use. If you were supporting multiple users in a small business environment definitely make sure you buy as many Windows SKUs as you have end users to be compliant, however. All of this becomes moot once you have >25 clients; then you can transition to using volume licensing and it's essentially unlimited. It still tracks it though and Microsoft can ask to look at it, especially if you change from Open to Select or some other volume pricing agreement, so keep that in mind.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  "Just", as if it were so easy. What kind of suggestion is this? None of us are trying to provide an operating system for a whole company. We need exactly one license.
gruez 6y ago
>if only I knew the right people instead of having to get licenses in very sketchy ways. You can buy it off the shelf. It's going to set you back $300+ dollars, but it's not hard. https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst...
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  Crazy that this information is so ... obscured. I had actually contacted Microsoft a year ago trying to do things the up-and-up way, only to get crickets in return. And still, bafflingly, what you found? That's an upgrade license. It's as if the idea of people putting together their own PCs just never occurs to Microsoft.
  - techdevangelist 6y ago
    The target demo of those buying licenses wouldn’t be building workstations, they are buying prebuilt whatever and upgrading the entitlements from there. MS very explicitly doesn’t target these releases to consumers, it’s entirely possible to do it by adding the 4 x useless products to get over the 5 x volume requirement. It’s sad, but not shocking they didn’t cover the edge case of a custom builder. If you were a firm building machines, you’d again get a special setup and do provisioning and key burning into bios etc.
    - at_a_remove 6y ago
      It is a shame. I maintain my own PCs and the computers for a handful of people who are not technically ept (a friend who is rubbish with computers, my mother, and an eighty-seven year old woman who reacts poorly to the random UX changes Microsoft likes to push out). I cannot help but think that there are a lot of "dark matter" sysadmins plunking away like me, just maintaining machines for friends or tiny businesses, and that we're underserved as a market segment.
Scramblejams 6y ago
LTSC's the best of the Windows options, for sure. But LTSC 2019 is too out-of-date to run the upcoming MSFS. :-( LTSC 2022 here I come!
- bserge 6y ago
  MSFS? The flight sim? Will it really not work with an older Windows version? I kinda remember running newer games on XP or Vista with some simple tweaks. It's not like Win10 changed that much for the past year or so.
  - Scramblejams 6y ago
    MSFS system requirements say 1909 is required[0]. LTSC 2019 is on 1809. I don't believe it's possible to upgrade LTSC 2019 to 1909. Happy to be wrong, though. [0] https://www.techspot.com/news/84931-microsoft-flight-simulator-system-requirements-revealed.html https://www.techspot.com/news/84931-microsoft-flight-simulat...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

gruez 6y ago

Isn't gpedit.msc available on pro?

LinuxBender 6y ago
Yes, but it won't work for activity on pro, only Enterprise and LTSC. You have to do registry changes to get rid of that on Pro and Home.

zzz61831 6y ago

What if you don't provide NATed internet to Windows machines at all and only let specific apps to connect to it through manually specified local proxies and maybe some whitelisted routes. Because shutting down internet access doesn't seem to cause any freezes for me.

LinuxBender 6y ago
Yes if you disable the internet it won't try to talk to the activity endpoint. You could probably trick windows into thinking the internet is always down. I don't know what else this might break, but the cleaner way is to do the registry changes.

noja 6y ago

Isn't that a GDPR violation?

msla 6y ago
Microsoft isn't an EU company. I'm sure the EU is perfectly free to block use of Windows if this is a GDPR violation, given that blocking use of Windows is the only way to ensure the GDPR violations are not continuing, as this is closed-source software.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Microsoft absolutely has subsidiaries in the EU. https://goo.gl/maps/bxPrCJEoygA7KE377 https://goo.gl/maps/bxPrCJEoygA7KE377 https://goo.gl/maps/srGMYK9JFdG67J8x5 https://goo.gl/maps/srGMYK9JFdG67J8x5
  - msla 6y ago
    It could spin those off completely or close them down. It probably won't, but it has that option.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      That still doesn’t give them immunity from GDPR. The EU considers the GDPR to apply to any entity globally. If the EU wanted to go after them, they likely wouldn’t even be able to transact any business in the EU. But Microsoft is never going to become a fugitive from EU law anyway.
- yohannparis 6y ago
  GDPR does not apply whether a company is in E.U. or not, but if a user/consumer of a service is in the E.U. So this will be a violation of the GDPR only for Windows users in the E.U. But I'm sure all that tracking is explain in the middle of 100 pages long agreement that you have to agree to install and use Windows.

Someone1234 6y ago

I just tried this, and wasn't able to reproduce freezing (I blocked both domains on my network's resolver). nslookup replies "Non-existent domain" for both (although the first one didn't exist before I blocked it, but blocked it anyway). My "Diagnostic Data" is set to "Basic" in the normal Settings UI. I'm on the "2004" release of Windows 10. Anything I have to do to experience this? What kind of applications/apps are causing the freeze?

LinuxBender 6y ago
Clear the DNS cache on your windows machines and home router first perhaps. Block it, then reboot after clearing cache. They may have even further consolidated these endpoints into something else. I went through this exercise last year after network debugging a family members game that was hanging, only to find Akamai was down in my area for the activity endpoint. It is a never-ending arms race of whack-a-mole. Another thing you can do is clear cache on your windows machine and router, then reboot and watch DNS requests as you launch applications. If they merged activity into a common endpoint, you should still see the requests.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  Done and done. Still, haven't experienced freezing. "activity.windows.com" was previously cached at the network resolver (before block/cache clear), but hasn't re-appeared and there's nothing obvious that replaces it during app or application launch. The machine has been both cleared and rebooked just for good measure (as it could be cached inside the telemetry service itself).
  - LinuxBender 6y ago
    No idea then. They have been moving things around and in likelihood may have merged the activity endpoint into another endpoint. You may have to watch DNS activity as you launch applications. I've helped a handful of gamers debug this one but I do not have a windows 10 machine to test with. I'm sure engineers at MS are watching this thread and will adapt again. Or maybe someone at MS can use a throw-away account here to say what changes they have made recently.

kevinoid 6y ago

Since both the video and Shutup10 cover lots of different settings, I'm guessing you are referring to sending "activity history"[1] to Microsoft specifically? Was disabling it via Settings[2] not sufficient? Is there another registry change that is required? Or was DNS filtering the only solution you found workable? [1]: https://support.microsoft.com/kb/4468227 https://support.microsoft.com/kb/4468227 [2]: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/100341-enable-disable-collect-activity-history-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/100341-enable-disable-co...

LinuxBender 6y ago
Disabling it in Windows on Pro and Home is not sufficient. Registry changes are the only way to completely turn off activity history. It is really disingenuous of MS to suggest you have the option to disable any of the telemetry. The wording they should use is "reduce". Turning everything off via the privacy controls in Windows will significantly reduce how chatty the box is. DNS filtering does not work any more as far as I can see. It appears they have wised up and are consolidating endpoints so that you can't block it that way any more.
- kevinoid 6y ago
  Thanks for the info. What registry changes are required?
- t-writescode 6y ago
  So, I've been pretty aggressive in all the Windows 10 settings, and I have a PiHole set up for my DNS. What I've noticed is that my PiHole barely lights up for Windows 10, especially compared to how loud it lit up for Windows 8, after all of those privacy violating features from Windows 10 were shoved into Windows 8. It seems, at least from my experimentation, that Windows 10 is actually quieter when you put all the privacy stuff up - either that, or the other ones are so inactive that they don't show up in my PiHole. Current statistics show least popular top permitted domain on my computer to be hit 258 times a day and nothing above it is Microsoft. Top Blocked Domains from Microsoft include: settings-win.data.microsoft.com ( > 100 ) v10.events.data.microsoft.com ( > 80 ) It's pretty darn quiet. I think Windows 8, after the telemetry updates, was was many times that. edit: small disclosure: I did work for Microsoft around 7 years ago. I did work in the Windows org, though. These thoughts are my own and I very much hate the tracking that Microsoft does, even at the bare minimum without a toggle switch to turn it all of.

redrobein 6y ago

I have my firewall blocking everything not a whitelist by default and I have no performance/network issues.