7 ms·

A Close Call: How a Near Failure Propelled Me to Succeed [pdf]

63 points by noch 6y ago

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
Reminds me of a friend from high school who was one of the smartest people I've ever known. In multivariable calculus we weren't required to do the HW if we didn't want to. He never did homework and never studied outside of paying attention in class and still got 100s on all the quizes/exams. He went to MIT and failed most of his classes his first semester there. He'd never had to study before so he didn't know how. Like Terence Tao though he's doing fine now.
- ISL 6y ago
  If we live long enough, we all find our limits. Learning to work within those limits and succeed in spite of them seems like one of the great leveling-ups of life.
  - gdoptimizer 6y ago
    Well said
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true if you're the smartest person in the world. John von Neumann springs to mind, who did his mathematics PhD at the same time as his chemical engineering degree, with a friend of his commenting that Evidently a Ph.D. thesis and examination did not constitute an appreciable effort. [0] To my knowledge he never really failed at any of his intellectual pursuits, but I could be mistaken. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#University_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#University_st...
- cyberdrunk 6y ago
  You had multivariable calculus in high school? Was it some kind of special programme?
  - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
    It was an advanced class for kids who'd done single-variable calculus early.
austinl 6y ago
This is something that afflicts a lot of younger, talented students. I was able to breeze through K-8 without studying, then attended a challenging high school where I went from a straight A student to a B/C student. It took me at least two years to realize that I could no longer succeed by simply showing up. Fortunately, this was great preparation for college. I saw many straight-A high school devastated after their first round of college engineering exams. I think this is an unfortunate consequence of our education system at-scale. It's difficult for advanced students to be properly challenged until they reach a certain reckoning point, which for Terence was impressively during his grad school exams.
- throwaway4220 6y ago
  This was my experience as well. When I see geniuses that coast through everything thrown at them, I wonder if I have any advantage over them in the future, having struggled before, or they're just so smart that nothing touches them.
  - austinl 6y ago
    I'm sure it depends on the challenge. Most folks that I'd consider geniuses just relentlessly pursue the things they're interested in. Depending on the topic, this gives them enough ability to get by the basic concepts tested in school. And then later in life, a good career if they're lucky (definitely lucked out being interested in computers). I think these people are still working hard in a sense, they just have a low tolerance for work that doesn't interest them.
- tiravia 6y ago
  similarly, I was able to go through k-8 with no effort outside of paying attention during class. high school was more or less the same, not to mention interests can easily wander during those years. in college I quickly discovered I could get more or less straight Bs with almost zero effort and figured the effort needed for the last 1 point in GPA was far too "expensive" relative to the first 3 so I coasted. never having explicitly failed during those years ill admit my level of "grit" is lacking. after a decade and variety of circumstances i sit here, mid 30s, saddled with a ton of student debt and no career. in the grand scheme i have definitely failed; if this reckoning point (realization) had been reached as early as mr. tao perhaps there would be time to turn things around.
quacked 6y ago
I once read a very interesting, barely-upvoted reddit post titled "I suck at Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu". It was written by a black belt, himself a formidable combatant and instructor, who no one would accuse of "sucking at BJJ". His rationale was that compared to world champion BJJ athletes, he was barely a blip on the radar of the sport itself. Although he had achieved significant mastery relative to the everyman, or even the average advanced practitioner, he was still woefully far off from the true limits of the sport. This can a tremendously valuable mindset to take up in mathematics; especially when one is a student learning under the factory model of modern school, where one is evaluated relative to their peers and the institution itself, rather than relative to the limits of what is possible. Countless "gifted and talented" students have been done a tremendous disservice by being informed at a young age by the system that they are "good at math" or "good at English" because they show relative aptitude in memorizing and regurgitating simplified models of advanced material. Terry Tao is lucky to be so smart that he was already somewhat well-known and successful by the time he learned the truth that these administered tests of ability are arbitrary; it would be tremendously helpful for modern students to learn the same, much earlier.
- dvt 6y ago
  This is a great post, and I think you often tend to see that kind of humility in top competitors -- especially athletes. I remember a guy in my social circle back at UCLA was an Olympic discus thrower: extremely talented, hard-working, gifted, and intimidating. One of the most humble, respectful, and down-to-earth people. He spoke with great reverence of the sport and his competitors and teammates. My sister's boyfriend was an Olympic-level swimmer and he has the same exact attitude. From my own experience playing Counter-Strike at world-class levels, I found that, generally speaking, the best players were the most humble and down-to-earth; the ones that talked shit were not only bad teammates, but sub-par players in general. These days, I'm much better than the average Joe at first-person-shooters, but I always point out that I'm actually pretty bad: I'd get easily beaten even by mid-tier semi-pro teams. Interestingly, this is a side-effect of our human brain not quite grasping exponential growth (or log scales). Going from the 95th to the 96th percentile is much harder than going from the 50th to the 85th.
troydavis 6y ago
Here’s the summary that Tao wrote at the time, for future Princeton grad students: https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/tao_terence https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/tao_terence Other students: https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/ https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/
croissants 6y ago
This essay also appears in a book called "Living Proof: Stories of Resilience Along the Mathematical Journey" put together by the AMS and MAA recently. Its a collection of essays kind of like this about near (or actual) mathematical failures and what happened afterward. The whole thing is here [1]. Most of the essays are from pretty "normal" mathematicians rather than super-duper stars like Tao. [1] https://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/ebooks/pdf/LivingProof_WEB.pdf https://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/ebooks/pdf/Livin...
johnnujler 6y ago
I sometimes feel very uncomfortable reading such stories, especially when the person in the story is a legendary mathematician. It is as if my mediocrity is afraid of their excellence. Maybe this is why we have so few Terry Taos and Ed Wittens, idolatry aside, there is a kind of fear that lurks inside of most people. Realising which the average joe distances himself more instead of striving to attain his full potential.

63 points by noch 6y ago

Reminds me of a friend from high school who was one of the smartest people I've ever known. In multivariable calculus we weren't required to do the HW if we didn't want to. He never did homework and never studied outside of paying attention in class and still got 100s on all the quizes/exams. He went to MIT and failed most of his classes his first semester there. He'd never had to study before so he didn't know how. Like Terence Tao though he's doing fine now.

ISL 6y ago
If we live long enough, we all find our limits. Learning to work within those limits and succeed in spite of them seems like one of the great leveling-ups of life.
- gdoptimizer 6y ago
  Well said
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Strictly speaking, I don't think that's true if you're the smartest person in the world. John von Neumann springs to mind, who did his mathematics PhD at the same time as his chemical engineering degree, with a friend of his commenting that Evidently a Ph.D. thesis and examination did not constitute an appreciable effort. [0] To my knowledge he never really failed at any of his intellectual pursuits, but I could be mistaken. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#University_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#University_st...
cyberdrunk 6y ago
You had multivariable calculus in high school? Was it some kind of special programme?
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  It was an advanced class for kids who'd done single-variable calculus early.

austinl 6y ago

This is something that afflicts a lot of younger, talented students. I was able to breeze through K-8 without studying, then attended a challenging high school where I went from a straight A student to a B/C student. It took me at least two years to realize that I could no longer succeed by simply showing up. Fortunately, this was great preparation for college. I saw many straight-A high school devastated after their first round of college engineering exams. I think this is an unfortunate consequence of our education system at-scale. It's difficult for advanced students to be properly challenged until they reach a certain reckoning point, which for Terence was impressively during his grad school exams.

throwaway4220 6y ago
This was my experience as well. When I see geniuses that coast through everything thrown at them, I wonder if I have any advantage over them in the future, having struggled before, or they're just so smart that nothing touches them.
- austinl 6y ago
  I'm sure it depends on the challenge. Most folks that I'd consider geniuses just relentlessly pursue the things they're interested in. Depending on the topic, this gives them enough ability to get by the basic concepts tested in school. And then later in life, a good career if they're lucky (definitely lucked out being interested in computers). I think these people are still working hard in a sense, they just have a low tolerance for work that doesn't interest them.
tiravia 6y ago
similarly, I was able to go through k-8 with no effort outside of paying attention during class. high school was more or less the same, not to mention interests can easily wander during those years. in college I quickly discovered I could get more or less straight Bs with almost zero effort and figured the effort needed for the last 1 point in GPA was far too "expensive" relative to the first 3 so I coasted. never having explicitly failed during those years ill admit my level of "grit" is lacking. after a decade and variety of circumstances i sit here, mid 30s, saddled with a ton of student debt and no career. in the grand scheme i have definitely failed; if this reckoning point (realization) had been reached as early as mr. tao perhaps there would be time to turn things around.

quacked 6y ago

I once read a very interesting, barely-upvoted reddit post titled "I suck at Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu". It was written by a black belt, himself a formidable combatant and instructor, who no one would accuse of "sucking at BJJ". His rationale was that compared to world champion BJJ athletes, he was barely a blip on the radar of the sport itself. Although he had achieved significant mastery relative to the everyman, or even the average advanced practitioner, he was still woefully far off from the true limits of the sport. This can a tremendously valuable mindset to take up in mathematics; especially when one is a student learning under the factory model of modern school, where one is evaluated relative to their peers and the institution itself, rather than relative to the limits of what is possible. Countless "gifted and talented" students have been done a tremendous disservice by being informed at a young age by the system that they are "good at math" or "good at English" because they show relative aptitude in memorizing and regurgitating simplified models of advanced material. Terry Tao is lucky to be so smart that he was already somewhat well-known and successful by the time he learned the truth that these administered tests of ability are arbitrary; it would be tremendously helpful for modern students to learn the same, much earlier.

dvt 6y ago
This is a great post, and I think you often tend to see that kind of humility in top competitors -- especially athletes. I remember a guy in my social circle back at UCLA was an Olympic discus thrower: extremely talented, hard-working, gifted, and intimidating. One of the most humble, respectful, and down-to-earth people. He spoke with great reverence of the sport and his competitors and teammates. My sister's boyfriend was an Olympic-level swimmer and he has the same exact attitude. From my own experience playing Counter-Strike at world-class levels, I found that, generally speaking, the best players were the most humble and down-to-earth; the ones that talked shit were not only bad teammates, but sub-par players in general. These days, I'm much better than the average Joe at first-person-shooters, but I always point out that I'm actually pretty bad: I'd get easily beaten even by mid-tier semi-pro teams. Interestingly, this is a side-effect of our human brain not quite grasping exponential growth (or log scales). Going from the 95th to the 96th percentile is much harder than going from the 50th to the 85th.

troydavis 6y ago

Here’s the summary that Tao wrote at the time, for future Princeton grad students: https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/tao_terence https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/tao_terence Other students: https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/ https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/

croissants 6y ago

This essay also appears in a book called "Living Proof: Stories of Resilience Along the Mathematical Journey" put together by the AMS and MAA recently. Its a collection of essays kind of like this about near (or actual) mathematical failures and what happened afterward. The whole thing is here [1]. Most of the essays are from pretty "normal" mathematicians rather than super-duper stars like Tao. [1] https://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/ebooks/pdf/LivingProof_WEB.pdf https://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/ebooks/pdf/Livin...

johnnujler 6y ago

I sometimes feel very uncomfortable reading such stories, especially when the person in the story is a legendary mathematician. It is as if my mediocrity is afraid of their excellence. Maybe this is why we have so few Terry Taos and Ed Wittens, idolatry aside, there is a kind of fear that lurks inside of most people. Realising which the average joe distances himself more instead of striving to attain his full potential.