6 ms·

You should not have to be good at opsec or economically advantaged to be able to demonstrate.

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
Completely agree, between DHS compiling information on journalists and unmarked vans picking up protesters, it's like the Arab Spring
sbierwagen 6y ago
Then don't bring a cell phone to a protest?
- ghaff 6y ago
  It would certainly seem as if far and away the easiest and best opsec is to not have your phone on you or at least not turned on. Have people really become so dependent on their phones that the thought of being somewhere without one doesn't even come up as an option? I'd certainly at least turn my phone or a burner phone off before depending on not being compromised.
  - nick_kline 6y ago
    People are pretty dependent on their cell phones. It's our maps, ways out of places. You can even do bus tickets on them. It's our way to call for help, see if someone is okay. So it's weird not to have my phone on me.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    The presence of cameras is important and the footage they have taken has made significant waves.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Use a camera?
      - 8note 6y ago
        But then you need both a camera and a cell phone(that you already have for the rest of life) to go to a protest
- closeparen 6y ago
  Are there documented examples of people in the US facing repercussions because they were known to have been at a protest?
  - tedunangst 6y ago
    Arrested for "your cell phone said you were at the protest" not so much. Arrested for "you were photographed throwing a molotov wearing a limited edition etsy shirt for which you left a review using the same handle as your instagram account" yeah. HN kinda considers that to be the same thing though.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Then again, what would happen to a protestor that actually protested in a non-violent manner? Let's specify in the US as I can only guess it would be much more dangerous to protest in a country without a protected constitutional right to do so. So a US citizen brings their cell phone to a protest, non-violently marches with their signs, sings some songs, yells some, gets dispersed in a violent manner and/or gets arrested. If their cell phone gets pinged in a Stingray sweep, what happens? What's the negative repercussions?
  - ComputerGuru 6y ago
    Their name goes in a file and they get added to various lists. Depending on which list you are on (and who else was at the protest) you will be eligible for further scrutiny. (Remember, everyone breaks dozens of laws a day, as none are meant to be enforced 100%.) Depending again on which lists you wind up on, you may find yourself unable to fly, ineligible for pre check, blocked from a government contract, failing an fbi background check, the target of yellow journalism, victim of police harassment, always missing flights due to random checks, or always being greeted by an entourage of your own at points of arrival. Have fun!
    - jrnichols 6y ago
      This is exactly why I'm 100% against the idea of using the "do not fly" lists to block citizens from firearm purchases. Imagine being denied your Second Amendment rights because you went to a perfectly legal political protest the previous year and you're now on a list that you can't get off of.
  - 8note 6y ago
    I think the trump government has proven that the executive can do whatever it wants, and you're lucky when governments follow the constitution. Following examples of different behaviour from the past 20 years: The US can kidnap you, Ship you off to Guantanamo, Torture you, Assasinate you with a drone based missile I read an interview with CBP folks where they consider the Portland protestors "enemy combatants" which is the same designation as "civilian killed by drone strike" in the middle east From a low level, more likely perspective, they might leak your information to white supremacist groups, and then choose not to press charges when they do something bad to you? This is assuming you're black, mind you.
- bosswipe 6y ago
  Not an option, modern protests are all about getting that viral video that makes the other side look bad.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  Cops can still come and harass you by coming to your house if they can find you or you filmed something they don't like. One person who filmed apparent police violence in seattle had 5 cops come to his to arrest him for something random about another protest. They may have found him from the account he posted it on. In either case, there will be attempts to find some people who weren't involved in violence.
anigbrowl 6y ago
How things should be and how things actually are don't always line up.

Completely agree, between DHS compiling information on journalists and unmarked vans picking up protesters, it's like the Arab Spring

sbierwagen 6y ago

Then don't bring a cell phone to a protest?

ghaff 6y ago
It would certainly seem as if far and away the easiest and best opsec is to not have your phone on you or at least not turned on. Have people really become so dependent on their phones that the thought of being somewhere without one doesn't even come up as an option? I'd certainly at least turn my phone or a burner phone off before depending on not being compromised.
- nick_kline 6y ago
  People are pretty dependent on their cell phones. It's our maps, ways out of places. You can even do bus tickets on them. It's our way to call for help, see if someone is okay. So it's weird not to have my phone on me.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  The presence of cameras is important and the footage they have taken has made significant waves.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Use a camera?
    - 8note 6y ago
      But then you need both a camera and a cell phone(that you already have for the rest of life) to go to a protest
closeparen 6y ago
Are there documented examples of people in the US facing repercussions because they were known to have been at a protest?
- tedunangst 6y ago
  Arrested for "your cell phone said you were at the protest" not so much. Arrested for "you were photographed throwing a molotov wearing a limited edition etsy shirt for which you left a review using the same handle as your instagram account" yeah. HN kinda considers that to be the same thing though.
dylan604 6y ago
Then again, what would happen to a protestor that actually protested in a non-violent manner? Let's specify in the US as I can only guess it would be much more dangerous to protest in a country without a protected constitutional right to do so. So a US citizen brings their cell phone to a protest, non-violently marches with their signs, sings some songs, yells some, gets dispersed in a violent manner and/or gets arrested. If their cell phone gets pinged in a Stingray sweep, what happens? What's the negative repercussions?
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  Their name goes in a file and they get added to various lists. Depending on which list you are on (and who else was at the protest) you will be eligible for further scrutiny. (Remember, everyone breaks dozens of laws a day, as none are meant to be enforced 100%.) Depending again on which lists you wind up on, you may find yourself unable to fly, ineligible for pre check, blocked from a government contract, failing an fbi background check, the target of yellow journalism, victim of police harassment, always missing flights due to random checks, or always being greeted by an entourage of your own at points of arrival. Have fun!
  - jrnichols 6y ago
    This is exactly why I'm 100% against the idea of using the "do not fly" lists to block citizens from firearm purchases. Imagine being denied your Second Amendment rights because you went to a perfectly legal political protest the previous year and you're now on a list that you can't get off of.
- 8note 6y ago
  I think the trump government has proven that the executive can do whatever it wants, and you're lucky when governments follow the constitution. Following examples of different behaviour from the past 20 years: The US can kidnap you, Ship you off to Guantanamo, Torture you, Assasinate you with a drone based missile I read an interview with CBP folks where they consider the Portland protestors "enemy combatants" which is the same designation as "civilian killed by drone strike" in the middle east From a low level, more likely perspective, they might leak your information to white supremacist groups, and then choose not to press charges when they do something bad to you? This is assuming you're black, mind you.
bosswipe 6y ago
Not an option, modern protests are all about getting that viral video that makes the other side look bad.
NotSammyHagar 6y ago
Cops can still come and harass you by coming to your house if they can find you or you filmed something they don't like. One person who filmed apparent police violence in seattle had 5 cops come to his to arrest him for something random about another protest. They may have found him from the account he posted it on. In either case, there will be attempts to find some people who weren't involved in violence.

anigbrowl 6y ago

How things should be and how things actually are don't always line up.