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> create the worst outcomes we’ve seen in decades Do you really believe all that is worse than the Iraq and Afghanistan wars which caused millions of people to

> create the worst outcomes we’ve seen in decades Do you really believe all that is worse than the Iraq and Afghanistan wars which caused millions of people to be killed? It sounds like you're just a nationalist who thinks their lives don't matter because they're not Americans. If millions of Americans were killed in a decade-long internal war, you would probably rank it worse than the mail being slow, fear for your American lifestyle, and the president's policies being stopped by the courts.

nxc18 6y ago
Americans have been destabilizing foreign countries almost continuously since the end of WW2, it’s the baseline state and hasn’t changed significantly under the current administration. If Trump actually delivered and extricated the US from the Middle East you might have a point, but he hasn’t. At best he’s ceded control of important areas to anti democratic regimes (Russia, Turkey) while abandoning US allies: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-tu... edit: If you care about civilian deaths, you might be particularly interested in recent policy changes made by the Trump administration: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-06/trump-cancels-u-s-report-on-civilian-deaths-in-drone-strikes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-06/trump-can... Another article describes the state of US murder of civilians in the Middle East: https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civilian-casualties-war/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civili... - I totally forgot that Trump had promised to murder the families of suspected terrorists; perhaps is delivering on that. (meta: parent comment is _exactly_ the type of bad faith, 'both sides' argument that I was referring to above; such arguments don't hold up under inspection or review of facts, but sadly people don't always take the time to point that out)
- lopmotr 6y ago
  So your answer is "yes, I believe it's worse than those wars during those previous presidencies"? If I come up with numbers of deaths of innocents during these time frames, and Trump's are lower, will you agree that those extra deaths are not as bad as the mail being slow and the other stuff you complained about?

nxc18 6y ago

Americans have been destabilizing foreign countries almost continuously since the end of WW2, it’s the baseline state and hasn’t changed significantly under the current administration. If Trump actually delivered and extricated the US from the Middle East you might have a point, but he hasn’t. At best he’s ceded control of important areas to anti democratic regimes (Russia, Turkey) while abandoning US allies: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-tu... edit: If you care about civilian deaths, you might be particularly interested in recent policy changes made by the Trump administration: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-06/trump-cancels-u-s-report-on-civilian-deaths-in-drone-strikes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-06/trump-can... Another article describes the state of US murder of civilians in the Middle East: https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civilian-casualties-war/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civili... - I totally forgot that Trump had promised to murder the families of suspected terrorists; perhaps is delivering on that. (meta: parent comment is _exactly_ the type of bad faith, 'both sides' argument that I was referring to above; such arguments don't hold up under inspection or review of facts, but sadly people don't always take the time to point that out)

lopmotr 6y ago
So your answer is "yes, I believe it's worse than those wars during those previous presidencies"? If I come up with numbers of deaths of innocents during these time frames, and Trump's are lower, will you agree that those extra deaths are not as bad as the mail being slow and the other stuff you complained about?