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> I'm for removing barriers to anyone being able to be interested, educated, and encouraged to do the things they want to do. How do you see that happening? W

> I'm for removing barriers to anyone being able to be interested, educated, and encouraged to do the things they want to do. How do you see that happening? What if the barriers stopping them is the hangover from 100s of years of systematic bias (like generational wealth not existing for many black people)? What if it's overcoming the subconcious biases that people have about how people in a field should look, talk, and act?

dencodev 6y ago
This exactly. Barriers will be removed once society makes real steps towards correcting hundreds (or thousands) of years of systemic racism that has impoverished families of color. Those barriers are not going anywhere anytime soon unfortunately.
kepler1 6y ago
Tell me, how is admitting a student to university because of his/her race, or mandating having a female board member, going to decrease the mortgage rate offered to a black family in Cleveland? The problem with your approach (where it inevitably goes) is that it can justify doing anything and seeks to make people distort their lives, no matter how unrelated or poorly-correlated it is. There's no limit. Go out there and help fix the mortgage rates. Go and address the concrete, specific problems. Don't go and create symbols for people to follow -- they rarely work the way you think they do.
- underwater 6y ago
  It feels like you're saying just make things fair, and the we won't need symbolic acts of equality. Which I agree with. But I have no idea what concrete actions you're imagining might get us there. We are a long way from eliminating overt bigotry, let alone subconcious. And even if we did, children born today still have to deal with the after effects like generational wealth and equal access to good education.
  - kepler1 6y ago
    If you can't think of any concrete actions to remedy existing daily barriers, and can only get behind symbols that might vaguely get us there, then we're all going to be in for a bad time.
imtringued 6y ago
That's exactly why people try to find shortcuts instead of solving the underlying problem. Nothing will change because of those shortcuts.

dencodev 6y ago

This exactly. Barriers will be removed once society makes real steps towards correcting hundreds (or thousands) of years of systemic racism that has impoverished families of color. Those barriers are not going anywhere anytime soon unfortunately.

kepler1 6y ago

Tell me, how is admitting a student to university because of his/her race, or mandating having a female board member, going to decrease the mortgage rate offered to a black family in Cleveland? The problem with your approach (where it inevitably goes) is that it can justify doing anything and seeks to make people distort their lives, no matter how unrelated or poorly-correlated it is. There's no limit. Go out there and help fix the mortgage rates. Go and address the concrete, specific problems. Don't go and create symbols for people to follow -- they rarely work the way you think they do.

underwater 6y ago
It feels like you're saying just make things fair, and the we won't need symbolic acts of equality. Which I agree with. But I have no idea what concrete actions you're imagining might get us there. We are a long way from eliminating overt bigotry, let alone subconcious. And even if we did, children born today still have to deal with the after effects like generational wealth and equal access to good education.
- kepler1 6y ago
  If you can't think of any concrete actions to remedy existing daily barriers, and can only get behind symbols that might vaguely get us there, then we're all going to be in for a bad time.

imtringued 6y ago

That's exactly why people try to find shortcuts instead of solving the underlying problem. Nothing will change because of those shortcuts.