13 ms·

The kindle could have been the best, no clue what happened but development just seemed to completely stall. It's sad because the vast majority of consumers don'

The kindle could have been the best, no clue what happened but development just seemed to completely stall. It's sad because the vast majority of consumers don't even realize there are incredible advances being made to E-ink displays, they never see it. Last summer I was sitting in a library and had noticed the person across from me was using an E-ink device I had never seen before. I showed the person my kindle and asked if they like their device more or less than mine. I vividly recall the woman's eyes light up with excitement as she handed me the device and pen she was holding. Perfect written text on an e-ink device the size of a paper notebook with what felt like an almost identical weight to my kindle. Stunning! She told me how she had been using it exclusively for note taking and the battery life was fairly comparable. I wish I could recall the name of the device but I think it was something by Sony. I couldn't help but be stunned though, Amazon is completely missing the opportunity with these devices and I feel bad for the people who will continue to purchase their obsolete products.

marcocampos 6y ago
Maybe it was a Remarkable [1] ? A new version is coming out soon. [1] https://remarkable.com https://remarkable.com
- marvindanig 6y ago
  I used it initially for sometime but then slowly fell back to the iPad. I mean the comparison between an iPad and Kindle/Remarkable isn’t fair, but if a tablet is the go-to form-factor for books and note-taking, I’d stick to the iPad.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    There was a time when e-ink seemed pretty compelling versus a tablet for certain uses, but that gap has shrunk to the point where it's hard to justify another special purpose device. I do have a Paperwhite in addition to an iPad but honestly don't use it very much. don't want to travel with yet another device and the iPad is actually a much better reader if the book isn't just flowing text.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      Tablets are too large and heavy for use cases that eink readers can fulfill. Nobody's going to hold up an iPad one handed over their head while lying in bed. Months of battery life make them more of a book than a tablet will ever be.
      - grogenaut 6y ago
        They're also so small and light I don't even question putting them in a travel bag. In the tablet vs laptop for travel I'm going to go laptop every time. So laptop + Kindle.
        ghaff 6y ago
        For a short trip, I'll sometimes take laptop and Kindle. But, especially for long plane trips, I can't comfortably use a laptop and a tablet just gives me a lot more entertainment options. (It's also sometimes useful for taking notes by hand.) And to another comment, yes the Kindle is small and light but it's something else I need to keep track of so I tend not to bring laptop + tablet + Kindle. (And I've never been able to make an iPad work for me as a laptop replacement.)
        grogenaut 6y ago
        My backpacks have these real small pockets for notepads still. Kindle just goes in there. On really long trips (Australia for a month) I bring all 3. Well actually I also brought my Switch, NC headphones, monster battery, and work laptop (loaner 13" mb) as well as personal. I had to pay the extra fee on carry ons on Jetstar (and it did get weighed). Really tablet is just crappy movie watcher or smaller webpage reader. Having all this was good since on that trip my SSD de-soldered itself from my motherboard on my Laptop, forcing me to use USB Sticks and turn it into a $3200 chrome book. I basically equate the kindle to a charging or backup set of wireless earbuds in weight.
achow 6y ago
If Sony then perhaps this: Sony DPT-RP1/B 13” Digital Paper https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DPT-RP1-13-Digital-Paper/dp/B072DXXXN1/ https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DPT-RP1-13-Digital-Paper/dp/B072... reMarkable would perhaps fall in the same category (eInk readers which are miles ahead of Kindle) https://remarkable.com/ https://remarkable.com/
- esperent 6y ago
  As far as I can see, that device costs around $1000 (can't see the exact price on the page you shared because I'm not in a country that Amazon deliver to). I would expect it to be much, much better than a kindle when it costs four times as much.
  - oblio 6y ago
    The 10" one seems to cost $380 or so.
  - achow 6y ago
    Sony Digital Paper costs around $700 for 13.3"; Kindle Oasis $270 for 7". Considering Amazon's scale they can easily bring 'Sony's type' of reader price down considerably if they choose to make such device. https://gizmodo.com/sonys-beautiful-e-ink-tablet-made-me-feel-great-joy-di-1832772942 https://gizmodo.com/sonys-beautiful-e-ink-tablet-made-me-fee...
    - grogenaut 6y ago
      Sony has the same scale. It's the scale of sales not manuf that dictates the price. Not sure if you remember the Kindle DX. It did not sell well but boy did I covet one.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        I bought a DX. It's still a wonderful machine. I worry when the battery fails and it'll be gone for good.
moomin 6y ago
Same is true of goodreads. Amazon have their market lock now, it’s the IE6 phase now. (Except it was way easier to get people off IE6 than it will be to get them off the platform with all of their books.)
- robin_reala 6y ago
  It’s the IE6 when it comes to rendering quality too. Zero support for any sort of standards, bugs everywhere you look, and it’s users complain bitterly if you don’t go out of your way to support their entrenched ways of working.
- natrik 6y ago
  I use goodreads as well and find the UI/UX very old fashioned. The lag is astonishing as well. What are some issues you have with it?
  - efreak 6y ago
    The mobile app is horrible. It's a webview or something, and works like total crap on old devices. If you open a notification for a group discussion post, it tells you what the title of the discussion is--but not what group it's for. As much as possible, I find myself interacting with Goodreads through calibre plugins; I've got a library with zero actual book files that contains an entry for every book in my library, and I mainly use that to browse my collection. Since syncing that list takes so long, my actual calibre libraries are also synced to Goodreads, as that's where I actually make my changes. With Library thing's recent removal of library limits, I'm thinking more and more about abandoning Goodreads--except I don't know if there's a calibre plugin for PT, and I've spent so much time adding and updating book records for items in my goodreads library, which would have to be redone for LT.
    - marvindanig 6y ago
      FYI the mobile opera browser uses the webview and is superfast, but the Kindle app is all native code.
  - 6y ago
m0xte 6y ago
Perhaps it’s “done”. Overdoing products is a massive problem these days.
- esperent 6y ago
  If you mean the kindle is not advancing because it's "done", no way. Objectively, it's a pretty terrible device. The reason it hasn't advanced is lack of competition.
  - m0xte 6y ago
    I have one. It works flawlessly for me
    - Normal_gaussian 6y ago
      This both is and isn't the case for me. I read fiction on a Kindle oasis. Its fantastic. I can't think of a single improvement. Its impossible for me to work with technical materials on the Kindle. Specs, tutorials, tech blogs, tech books. All are unusable because of resizing figures.
      - m0xte 6y ago
        That’s always been the case for technical content. The form factor and the document structures are fairly unsuited to pocket devices. I use mine for fiction only. I crank out the desktop for technical content almost universally. iPad doesn’t cut it either. But at the same time I have actual physical books for very technical stuff. They are still easier to use.
      - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        The trouble is all the things you would need for reading technical material (large size, note taking, etc) would detract from what you need to read fiction. They probably should be two different devices. Personally I'm waiting for the new Remarkable.
switch11 6y ago
The answer is very simple Amazon didn't want to expand on Kindle functionality because 1) They were scared people would stop reading books 2) They were scared of it becoming something they couldn't control 3) They have their heads up their asses and think they can make software and hardware better than anyone else when all they can make is stuff like Kindle and Kindle Fire Phone and other useless crap you know how originally Steve Jobs didn't want an App Store on iPhone That's what Amazon was like They are control freaks EXCEPT they are useless at hardware and software as far as it comes to devices (Kindle Fire Phone is a good example of how bad, though Kindle is also devolving fast) Also they can't make a good ecosystem because they screw over everyone they work with You see it in AWS where they copied and cloned successful AWS companies You see it in Alexa where they steal ideas from companies in the Alexa Fund etc It was the same story in Kindle eInk App Store * We built apps for eInk and all the other developers who worked on its shared the same sentiment we did. None of the developers could believe how bad Amazon were at working with devs It was the most godawful experience you could ever imagine working with anyone on anything A) They were so bad at letting apps go out to customers they had to close down the app store B) For every app that did well they started contacting other developers to clone the App That's why you saw 2 of everything. One high quality version, and then a cheap clone because Amazon's mindset was to have 2 or 3 of everything that started selling well So all the early developers who spent money and time on it, instead of getting rewarded, got screwed C) I had an Amazon guy literally tell me on the phone - You've already made $200,000 this year. Why do you want to make more? Our development costs were not even covered with $200,000 D) We had one hit game in one area. Let's say (just as an example) card games. We had a separate card game pending approval, Game X. They kept delaying it Meanwhile an Android developer contacted us saying - You guys have this card game. How is it doing? Because Amazon is contacting us saying card games are hot and asking us to make Game X So, we put in the effort to do R&D and discovered card games were hot And they stopped our READY FOR LAUNCH app in the same area (card games) and started contacting other developers to make that same app. It's the kind of stuff you can't even imagine a business partner ever doing to you * E) They kept one set of developers (ones who they thought 'had already made enough money') completely out of launch of the Kindle Paperwhite So some of the people who invested in their Kindle eInk App Store, they Screwed over by purposefully keeping out many of them from the launch of the new device What is crazy is they invited other developers to clone the same apps Many of those were low quality devs from 3rd world countries who were asked to make clone apps. They found some unknown company from India (no disrespect, just implying that it was not some known game studio) to clone our card game app and launch for Kindle paperwhite (while our game was kept out) So our apps were kept out of launch and meanwhile low quality knockoffs of our apps were sent to customers We literally had customers emailing and writing reviews complaining 'why is it not available for Kindle Paperwhite' * you might be talking about the Sony eReader It was the first mainstream eInk based reader. Amazon takes all the credit but Sony did it first All Amazon did was get lots of authors to offer free books and use that to get market share. Now everyone thinks Amazon invented eReaders and eBooks Well, guess in a sense they did as history is written by the winners Amazon is very good where it can get subsidies from the government (no sales tax, USPS special rates) or where it can make a platform and invite people in and later screw them over and replace them with someone else AWS is pretty impressive Sooner or later they are going to run out of affiliates/developers/companies/suppliers to screw over

marcocampos 6y ago

Maybe it was a Remarkable [1] ? A new version is coming out soon. [1] https://remarkable.com https://remarkable.com

marvindanig 6y ago
I used it initially for sometime but then slowly fell back to the iPad. I mean the comparison between an iPad and Kindle/Remarkable isn’t fair, but if a tablet is the go-to form-factor for books and note-taking, I’d stick to the iPad.
- ghaff 6y ago
  There was a time when e-ink seemed pretty compelling versus a tablet for certain uses, but that gap has shrunk to the point where it's hard to justify another special purpose device. I do have a Paperwhite in addition to an iPad but honestly don't use it very much. don't want to travel with yet another device and the iPad is actually a much better reader if the book isn't just flowing text.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    Tablets are too large and heavy for use cases that eink readers can fulfill. Nobody's going to hold up an iPad one handed over their head while lying in bed. Months of battery life make them more of a book than a tablet will ever be.
    - grogenaut 6y ago
      They're also so small and light I don't even question putting them in a travel bag. In the tablet vs laptop for travel I'm going to go laptop every time. So laptop + Kindle.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        For a short trip, I'll sometimes take laptop and Kindle. But, especially for long plane trips, I can't comfortably use a laptop and a tablet just gives me a lot more entertainment options. (It's also sometimes useful for taking notes by hand.) And to another comment, yes the Kindle is small and light but it's something else I need to keep track of so I tend not to bring laptop + tablet + Kindle. (And I've never been able to make an iPad work for me as a laptop replacement.)
        grogenaut 6y ago
        My backpacks have these real small pockets for notepads still. Kindle just goes in there. On really long trips (Australia for a month) I bring all 3. Well actually I also brought my Switch, NC headphones, monster battery, and work laptop (loaner 13" mb) as well as personal. I had to pay the extra fee on carry ons on Jetstar (and it did get weighed). Really tablet is just crappy movie watcher or smaller webpage reader. Having all this was good since on that trip my SSD de-soldered itself from my motherboard on my Laptop, forcing me to use USB Sticks and turn it into a $3200 chrome book. I basically equate the kindle to a charging or backup set of wireless earbuds in weight.

achow 6y ago

If Sony then perhaps this: Sony DPT-RP1/B 13” Digital Paper https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DPT-RP1-13-Digital-Paper/dp/B072DXXXN1/ https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DPT-RP1-13-Digital-Paper/dp/B072... reMarkable would perhaps fall in the same category (eInk readers which are miles ahead of Kindle) https://remarkable.com/ https://remarkable.com/

esperent 6y ago
As far as I can see, that device costs around $1000 (can't see the exact price on the page you shared because I'm not in a country that Amazon deliver to). I would expect it to be much, much better than a kindle when it costs four times as much.
- oblio 6y ago
  The 10" one seems to cost $380 or so.
- achow 6y ago
  Sony Digital Paper costs around $700 for 13.3"; Kindle Oasis $270 for 7". Considering Amazon's scale they can easily bring 'Sony's type' of reader price down considerably if they choose to make such device. https://gizmodo.com/sonys-beautiful-e-ink-tablet-made-me-feel-great-joy-di-1832772942 https://gizmodo.com/sonys-beautiful-e-ink-tablet-made-me-fee...
  - grogenaut 6y ago
    Sony has the same scale. It's the scale of sales not manuf that dictates the price. Not sure if you remember the Kindle DX. It did not sell well but boy did I covet one.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      I bought a DX. It's still a wonderful machine. I worry when the battery fails and it'll be gone for good.

moomin 6y ago

Same is true of goodreads. Amazon have their market lock now, it’s the IE6 phase now. (Except it was way easier to get people off IE6 than it will be to get them off the platform with all of their books.)

robin_reala 6y ago
It’s the IE6 when it comes to rendering quality too. Zero support for any sort of standards, bugs everywhere you look, and it’s users complain bitterly if you don’t go out of your way to support their entrenched ways of working.
natrik 6y ago
I use goodreads as well and find the UI/UX very old fashioned. The lag is astonishing as well. What are some issues you have with it?
- efreak 6y ago
  The mobile app is horrible. It's a webview or something, and works like total crap on old devices. If you open a notification for a group discussion post, it tells you what the title of the discussion is--but not what group it's for. As much as possible, I find myself interacting with Goodreads through calibre plugins; I've got a library with zero actual book files that contains an entry for every book in my library, and I mainly use that to browse my collection. Since syncing that list takes so long, my actual calibre libraries are also synced to Goodreads, as that's where I actually make my changes. With Library thing's recent removal of library limits, I'm thinking more and more about abandoning Goodreads--except I don't know if there's a calibre plugin for PT, and I've spent so much time adding and updating book records for items in my goodreads library, which would have to be redone for LT.
  - marvindanig 6y ago
    FYI the mobile opera browser uses the webview and is superfast, but the Kindle app is all native code.
- 6y ago

m0xte 6y ago

Perhaps it’s “done”. Overdoing products is a massive problem these days.

esperent 6y ago
If you mean the kindle is not advancing because it's "done", no way. Objectively, it's a pretty terrible device. The reason it hasn't advanced is lack of competition.
- m0xte 6y ago
  I have one. It works flawlessly for me
  - Normal_gaussian 6y ago
    This both is and isn't the case for me. I read fiction on a Kindle oasis. Its fantastic. I can't think of a single improvement. Its impossible for me to work with technical materials on the Kindle. Specs, tutorials, tech blogs, tech books. All are unusable because of resizing figures.
    - m0xte 6y ago
      That’s always been the case for technical content. The form factor and the document structures are fairly unsuited to pocket devices. I use mine for fiction only. I crank out the desktop for technical content almost universally. iPad doesn’t cut it either. But at the same time I have actual physical books for very technical stuff. They are still easier to use.
    - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      The trouble is all the things you would need for reading technical material (large size, note taking, etc) would detract from what you need to read fiction. They probably should be two different devices. Personally I'm waiting for the new Remarkable.

switch11 6y ago

The answer is very simple Amazon didn't want to expand on Kindle functionality because 1) They were scared people would stop reading books 2) They were scared of it becoming something they couldn't control 3) They have their heads up their asses and think they can make software and hardware better than anyone else when all they can make is stuff like Kindle and Kindle Fire Phone and other useless crap you know how originally Steve Jobs didn't want an App Store on iPhone That's what Amazon was like They are control freaks EXCEPT they are useless at hardware and software as far as it comes to devices (Kindle Fire Phone is a good example of how bad, though Kindle is also devolving fast) Also they can't make a good ecosystem because they screw over everyone they work with You see it in AWS where they copied and cloned successful AWS companies You see it in Alexa where they steal ideas from companies in the Alexa Fund etc It was the same story in Kindle eInk App Store * We built apps for eInk and all the other developers who worked on its shared the same sentiment we did. None of the developers could believe how bad Amazon were at working with devs It was the most godawful experience you could ever imagine working with anyone on anything A) They were so bad at letting apps go out to customers they had to close down the app store B) For every app that did well they started contacting other developers to clone the App That's why you saw 2 of everything. One high quality version, and then a cheap clone because Amazon's mindset was to have 2 or 3 of everything that started selling well So all the early developers who spent money and time on it, instead of getting rewarded, got screwed C) I had an Amazon guy literally tell me on the phone - You've already made $200,000 this year. Why do you want to make more? Our development costs were not even covered with $200,000 D) We had one hit game in one area. Let's say (just as an example) card games. We had a separate card game pending approval, Game X. They kept delaying it Meanwhile an Android developer contacted us saying - You guys have this card game. How is it doing? Because Amazon is contacting us saying card games are hot and asking us to make Game X So, we put in the effort to do R&D and discovered card games were hot And they stopped our READY FOR LAUNCH app in the same area (card games) and started contacting other developers to make that same app. It's the kind of stuff you can't even imagine a business partner ever doing to you * E) They kept one set of developers (ones who they thought 'had already made enough money') completely out of launch of the Kindle Paperwhite So some of the people who invested in their Kindle eInk App Store, they Screwed over by purposefully keeping out many of them from the launch of the new device What is crazy is they invited other developers to clone the same apps Many of those were low quality devs from 3rd world countries who were asked to make clone apps. They found some unknown company from India (no disrespect, just implying that it was not some known game studio) to clone our card game app and launch for Kindle paperwhite (while our game was kept out) So our apps were kept out of launch and meanwhile low quality knockoffs of our apps were sent to customers We literally had customers emailing and writing reviews complaining 'why is it not available for Kindle Paperwhite' * you might be talking about the Sony eReader It was the first mainstream eInk based reader. Amazon takes all the credit but Sony did it first All Amazon did was get lots of authors to offer free books and use that to get market share. Now everyone thinks Amazon invented eReaders and eBooks Well, guess in a sense they did as history is written by the winners Amazon is very good where it can get subsidies from the government (no sales tax, USPS special rates) or where it can make a platform and invite people in and later screw them over and replace them with someone else AWS is pretty impressive Sooner or later they are going to run out of affiliates/developers/companies/suppliers to screw over