6 ms·

Brazilian here. Unfortunately I wouldn't call them independent. They simply represent the other side. Brazil is not as united behind Bolsonaro as the media make

Brazilian here. Unfortunately I wouldn't call them independent. They simply represent the other side. Brazil is not as united behind Bolsonaro as the media makes out to be.

egeozcan 6y ago
I'm originally from Turkey, and that's also the case with Erdoğan. I mean, they wouldn't be dictators if everyone agreed with them, no? The big problem arising from the stark polarization is that there's no uncontaminated news sources anymore. Many argue that news should be political anyway but I really miss reading stuff that doesn't fit 100 percent to a single agenda.
- gavribirnbaum 6y ago
  Hold on, Bolsonaro is not a dictator. Federalism even recently screwed him over. He didn't act on COVID but individual states imposed their own measures and thankfully countered his opinion.
  - lkrubner 6y ago
    That's like saying Mussolini was not a dictator in 1922, because there were still so many factions competing against him in Italian politics. Possibly true, but it's also clear what direction he was heading. By 1925 he had largely consolidated his power.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - gavribirnbaum 6y ago
      Well I'm also super concerned that he has expressed dictatorial aspirations. But as of right now the constitution holds.
      - iandanforth 6y ago
        "Super concerned?" The guy wanted to celebrate the coup that started the last dictatorship. Stop splitting hairs. http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutional-support-for-the-brazilian-civil-military-dictatorship-of-1964-1985/ http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutio... Note: Trump's call for postponing the election is exactly the same thing. Evidence they have no interest in constitutional democracy and will, at the earliest possible moment, impose total control on the country.
        gavribirnbaum 6y ago
        Read what I said. I said I'm super concerned about it :D
- prox 6y ago
  Polarization is exactly that, remove all gradients. Fascists like to make out everything is black-white. “Only siths deal in absolutes”
  - wearsshoes 6y ago
    I’ve always thought that quote itself was curiously absolute. ‘Only’, Yoda?
    - monocasa 6y ago
      That whole movie is about how the Jedi completely lost their way from millennia of stagnation to the point that they couldn't recognize the sith in their midsts anymore, and how their own well meaning influence contributed to their own downfall.
      - nradov 6y ago
        The Jedi were a death cult of religious fanatics who coerced child soldiers into fighting their wars of conquest.
        rhizome 6y ago
        Time for a Star Wars supercut with The Jedi Theme and Imperial March flipped to the other sides.
    - famouslastwords 6y ago
      >I’ve always thought that quote itself was curiously absolute. ‘Only’, Yoda? “Do. Or do not. There is no try.” I always took it as Yoda unwittingly revealing himself as a Sith Lord. I mean, how much do we really know about this little fella's shady past? :D
- im3w1l 6y ago
  > I mean, they wouldn't be dictators if everyone agreed with them, no? A dictator's enemies are deplatformed and powerless. They are certainly not allowed to sit in top courts.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
oscargrouch 6y ago
There are 11 or 12 supreme court judges. While one or two may present some "tastes" here and there, overall, all of them together are doing a good job til now. Gilmar Mendes sometimes free their rich pals from prison here and there, but in other matters hes not that bad. Dias Toffoli also do some shady things here and there but some bad things he did got reverted back by the other judges. I dont think is fair to say they "represent the other side", first because this gives a dichotomistic way to see things that are far too simplistic. Also because as a Brazilian too, im very thankful for what the two other powers; judiciary and legislative, have being doing to put the executive at least in check. The president is nuts, and the country is without any sort of leadership, and if it were only incompetence, but the problem is that this guy is trying by any means necessary to do a takeover move over the republic.. And if those other powers weren't in opposition, trying to defend the democratic institutions, we would be heading to some sort of Putin state. So of course that nothing is perfect, but overall i've been positively surprised about what they have done so far.
aflag 6y ago
They are free to not take the government side in all matters. So, how are they not independent?
- glofish 6y ago
  Independence means something else. It means not beholden to certain interests. Simply being in the pocket of the other party (opposition) does not make them independent. (Disclaimer: I don't know if this is the case, simply commenting on the topic of independence)

Brazilian here. Unfortunately I wouldn't call them independent. They simply represent the other side. Brazil is not as united behind Bolsonaro as the media makes out to be.

egeozcan 6y ago

I'm originally from Turkey, and that's also the case with Erdoğan. I mean, they wouldn't be dictators if everyone agreed with them, no? The big problem arising from the stark polarization is that there's no uncontaminated news sources anymore. Many argue that news should be political anyway but I really miss reading stuff that doesn't fit 100 percent to a single agenda.

gavribirnbaum 6y ago
Hold on, Bolsonaro is not a dictator. Federalism even recently screwed him over. He didn't act on COVID but individual states imposed their own measures and thankfully countered his opinion.
- lkrubner 6y ago
  That's like saying Mussolini was not a dictator in 1922, because there were still so many factions competing against him in Italian politics. Possibly true, but it's also clear what direction he was heading. By 1925 he had largely consolidated his power.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - gavribirnbaum 6y ago
    Well I'm also super concerned that he has expressed dictatorial aspirations. But as of right now the constitution holds.
    - iandanforth 6y ago
      "Super concerned?" The guy wanted to celebrate the coup that started the last dictatorship. Stop splitting hairs. http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutional-support-for-the-brazilian-civil-military-dictatorship-of-1964-1985/ http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutio... Note: Trump's call for postponing the election is exactly the same thing. Evidence they have no interest in constitutional democracy and will, at the earliest possible moment, impose total control on the country.
      - gavribirnbaum 6y ago
        Read what I said. I said I'm super concerned about it :D
prox 6y ago
Polarization is exactly that, remove all gradients. Fascists like to make out everything is black-white. “Only siths deal in absolutes”
- wearsshoes 6y ago
  I’ve always thought that quote itself was curiously absolute. ‘Only’, Yoda?
  - monocasa 6y ago
    That whole movie is about how the Jedi completely lost their way from millennia of stagnation to the point that they couldn't recognize the sith in their midsts anymore, and how their own well meaning influence contributed to their own downfall.
    - nradov 6y ago
      The Jedi were a death cult of religious fanatics who coerced child soldiers into fighting their wars of conquest.
      - rhizome 6y ago
        Time for a Star Wars supercut with The Jedi Theme and Imperial March flipped to the other sides.
  - famouslastwords 6y ago
    >I’ve always thought that quote itself was curiously absolute. ‘Only’, Yoda? “Do. Or do not. There is no try.” I always took it as Yoda unwittingly revealing himself as a Sith Lord. I mean, how much do we really know about this little fella's shady past? :D
im3w1l 6y ago
> I mean, they wouldn't be dictators if everyone agreed with them, no? A dictator's enemies are deplatformed and powerless. They are certainly not allowed to sit in top courts.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

oscargrouch 6y ago

There are 11 or 12 supreme court judges. While one or two may present some "tastes" here and there, overall, all of them together are doing a good job til now. Gilmar Mendes sometimes free their rich pals from prison here and there, but in other matters hes not that bad. Dias Toffoli also do some shady things here and there but some bad things he did got reverted back by the other judges. I dont think is fair to say they "represent the other side", first because this gives a dichotomistic way to see things that are far too simplistic. Also because as a Brazilian too, im very thankful for what the two other powers; judiciary and legislative, have being doing to put the executive at least in check. The president is nuts, and the country is without any sort of leadership, and if it were only incompetence, but the problem is that this guy is trying by any means necessary to do a takeover move over the republic.. And if those other powers weren't in opposition, trying to defend the democratic institutions, we would be heading to some sort of Putin state. So of course that nothing is perfect, but overall i've been positively surprised about what they have done so far.

aflag 6y ago

They are free to not take the government side in all matters. So, how are they not independent?

glofish 6y ago
Independence means something else. It means not beholden to certain interests. Simply being in the pocket of the other party (opposition) does not make them independent. (Disclaimer: I don't know if this is the case, simply commenting on the topic of independence)