5 ms·

nurses, teachers, HR and many more professions are overwhelmingly female dominated, yet nobody is complaining about that, is it? why does gender and race matter

nurses, teachers, HR and many more professions are overwhelmingly female dominated, yet nobody is complaining about that, is it? why does gender and race matter when what it takes is skills, competence, intelligence? why is it so hard to understand that univariate analysis is nonsense?

DanBC 6y ago
> nurses, teachers, HR and many more professions are overwhelmingly female dominated, yet nobody is complaining about that, is it? When is the last time you read a nursing magazine, or did a web search for information about increasing the numbers of male nurses? People do complain about these things.
- acituan 6y ago
  The difference is for some sectors this topic appears frequently on the mainstream media while what you suggest requires checking dedicated specialists publications or active intention of search. That is precisely the problem, what determines the difference in which sectors’ diversity problems deserve most public attention and why.
  - foldr 6y ago
    The issue of the gender ratio in nursing does appear in the mainstream media too.
    - acituan 6y ago
      I'm sure there is an odd piece here and there. But certainly not covered as frequently and as prominently as tech. To give context, US has almost exactly the same number of software engineers and nurses (~4 million).
      - foldr 6y ago
        Evidence for this? Tech overall is in the news more than nursing, but there are many stories about male nurses in the mainstream media every year.
- mpweiher 6y ago
  > People do complain about these things. But how do they complain? Compared to the tech situation, where you don't dare think it might be anything but sexism and oppression. Here's an article in the Guardian about the topic. https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2017/mar/01/why-so-few-male-nurses https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2017/mar/01/w... Some choice excerpts: “Nursing is all about the empathy and caring that people show, but those traits are not exclusively female [..]” Let's see, "Tech is all about logic, but those traits are not exclusively male". “Men might find it harder to put into words their caring and compassionate qualities, but can demonstrate them more easily.” -> "Women find it harder to express their technical chops, but they can demonstrate them more easily" "When I was a ward manager, or sister, I did get some people saying: “Shouldn’t you be a brother?” But, actually, no one has ever commented on the fact that I’m a matron and a man." -> Tech language is sexist and must be changed. "Davies questions whether it is the work itself that doesn’t attract men, or whether other factors are to blame" -> If you even dare to suggest that something other than horrible sexism is to blame for the imbalance in tech, no matter the overwhelming evidence, you are censured or fired.
bb111 6y ago
Actually, the discussion around nurses/teachers being overly female and how it impacts the salaries in the field is widely discussed in sociology and feminist theory. The idea that professions dedicated to "care" (healthcare, childcare, or even human ressources which demand "people skills") are overwhelmingly female and underrated is a staple of a lot of conversations around gender, workforce and income gaps between men and women. edit : corrected a typo
- CMCDragonkai 6y ago
  It's important not to forget there's alot of self-selection going on too.
- burfog 6y ago
  The idea that those professions are lower-paid because they are mostly female is pretty strange. It would require a vast and secret conspiracy. The scandal would dwarf the secret Silicon Valley agreement (involving Apple, Google, Adobe, Intel) by many orders of magnitude. You can make a reasonable argument that the causation goes the other way, with men giving higher priority to money when choosing a career. This makes sense, because a male's career has a huge impact on dating success.
  - GlennS 6y ago
    I would bet that male nurses do pretty well with dating.
  - tasogare 6y ago
    > It would require a vast and secret conspiracy. This conspiracy theory has been given a name, which is widely use in feminist circles: the Patriarchy.
  - foldr 6y ago
    It used to be routine to openly pay women less than men merely because they were women. No vast conspiracy was required then, so why would it be now?
watwut 6y ago
Lack of male teachers was discussed ever since I was a kid. Just because you don't care about that topic does not mean it does not exists. The guy teachers were supposed to be role models for boys.

DanBC 6y ago

> nurses, teachers, HR and many more professions are overwhelmingly female dominated, yet nobody is complaining about that, is it? When is the last time you read a nursing magazine, or did a web search for information about increasing the numbers of male nurses? People do complain about these things.

acituan 6y ago
The difference is for some sectors this topic appears frequently on the mainstream media while what you suggest requires checking dedicated specialists publications or active intention of search. That is precisely the problem, what determines the difference in which sectors’ diversity problems deserve most public attention and why.
- foldr 6y ago
  The issue of the gender ratio in nursing does appear in the mainstream media too.
  - acituan 6y ago
    I'm sure there is an odd piece here and there. But certainly not covered as frequently and as prominently as tech. To give context, US has almost exactly the same number of software engineers and nurses (~4 million).
    - foldr 6y ago
      Evidence for this? Tech overall is in the news more than nursing, but there are many stories about male nurses in the mainstream media every year.
mpweiher 6y ago
> People do complain about these things. But how do they complain? Compared to the tech situation, where you don't dare think it might be anything but sexism and oppression. Here's an article in the Guardian about the topic. https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2017/mar/01/why-so-few-male-nurses https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2017/mar/01/w... Some choice excerpts: “Nursing is all about the empathy and caring that people show, but those traits are not exclusively female [..]” Let's see, "Tech is all about logic, but those traits are not exclusively male". “Men might find it harder to put into words their caring and compassionate qualities, but can demonstrate them more easily.” -> "Women find it harder to express their technical chops, but they can demonstrate them more easily" "When I was a ward manager, or sister, I did get some people saying: “Shouldn’t you be a brother?” But, actually, no one has ever commented on the fact that I’m a matron and a man." -> Tech language is sexist and must be changed. "Davies questions whether it is the work itself that doesn’t attract men, or whether other factors are to blame" -> If you even dare to suggest that something other than horrible sexism is to blame for the imbalance in tech, no matter the overwhelming evidence, you are censured or fired.

bb111 6y ago

Actually, the discussion around nurses/teachers being overly female and how it impacts the salaries in the field is widely discussed in sociology and feminist theory. The idea that professions dedicated to "care" (healthcare, childcare, or even human ressources which demand "people skills") are overwhelmingly female and underrated is a staple of a lot of conversations around gender, workforce and income gaps between men and women. edit : corrected a typo

CMCDragonkai 6y ago
It's important not to forget there's alot of self-selection going on too.
burfog 6y ago
The idea that those professions are lower-paid because they are mostly female is pretty strange. It would require a vast and secret conspiracy. The scandal would dwarf the secret Silicon Valley agreement (involving Apple, Google, Adobe, Intel) by many orders of magnitude. You can make a reasonable argument that the causation goes the other way, with men giving higher priority to money when choosing a career. This makes sense, because a male's career has a huge impact on dating success.
- GlennS 6y ago
  I would bet that male nurses do pretty well with dating.
- tasogare 6y ago
  > It would require a vast and secret conspiracy. This conspiracy theory has been given a name, which is widely use in feminist circles: the Patriarchy.
- foldr 6y ago
  It used to be routine to openly pay women less than men merely because they were women. No vast conspiracy was required then, so why would it be now?

watwut 6y ago

Lack of male teachers was discussed ever since I was a kid. Just because you don't care about that topic does not mean it does not exists. The guy teachers were supposed to be role models for boys.