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I am glad that Brazil's court still remains independent. Looks like Bolsonaro, should borrow couple of tips from his friend Narendra Modi. Modi, dismantled the

I am glad that Brazil's court still remains independent. Looks like Bolsonaro, should borrow couple of tips from his friend Narendra Modi. Modi, dismantled the institutions in India systematically to guarantee his long lasting power. e.g. The only official from the election commission who didn't give a clean-chit to Modi for his election campaign violations during last election was greeted with Income Tax raids on his family members after the election, now he has been transferred to Asian Bank(He was next in line to become Chief Election Commissioner). Look at the current Chief Justice of India, posing with limited edition Harley Davidson[0], which apparently was brought to him 'just for a demo by a local dealer and definitely does not belong to the son of a ruling party member'! Former Chief Justice of India, has been given membership in parliament! [0]https://theprint.in/india/photos-of-justice-bobde-astride-a-hunky-harley-davidson-reveal-different-side-to-indias-cji/450849/ https://theprint.in/india/photos-of-justice-bobde-astride-a-...

m0zg 6y ago
And yet when I pointed out that you can't do business in India without paying bribes I was downvoted to hell. :-)
cscurmudgeon 6y ago
This is why I come to Hacker News. Absence of irrelevant political motivated posts with flimsy evidence.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
gavribirnbaum 6y ago
Brazilian here. Unfortunately I wouldn't call them independent. They simply represent the other side. Brazil is not as united behind Bolsonaro as the media makes out to be.
- egeozcan 6y ago
  I'm originally from Turkey, and that's also the case with Erdoğan. I mean, they wouldn't be dictators if everyone agreed with them, no? The big problem arising from the stark polarization is that there's no uncontaminated news sources anymore. Many argue that news should be political anyway but I really miss reading stuff that doesn't fit 100 percent to a single agenda.
  - gavribirnbaum 6y ago
    Hold on, Bolsonaro is not a dictator. Federalism even recently screwed him over. He didn't act on COVID but individual states imposed their own measures and thankfully countered his opinion.
    - lkrubner 6y ago
      That's like saying Mussolini was not a dictator in 1922, because there were still so many factions competing against him in Italian politics. Possibly true, but it's also clear what direction he was heading. By 1925 he had largely consolidated his power.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - gavribirnbaum 6y ago
        Well I'm also super concerned that he has expressed dictatorial aspirations. But as of right now the constitution holds.
        iandanforth 6y ago
        "Super concerned?" The guy wanted to celebrate the coup that started the last dictatorship. Stop splitting hairs. http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutional-support-for-the-brazilian-civil-military-dictatorship-of-1964-1985/ http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutio... Note: Trump's call for postponing the election is exactly the same thing. Evidence they have no interest in constitutional democracy and will, at the earliest possible moment, impose total control on the country.
gavribirnbaum 6y ago
Last time I visited Brazil some 5 years ago, the courts would ban Whatsapp every couple months. They were in bed with telecom companies that hated that Whatsapp made many of their services free.
- ratww 6y ago
  That's a wildly uninformed accusation. There's a lot of problems with telecoms there, but WhatsApp actually has partnerships to enjoy "unlimited" bandwidth privileges with all four mobile operators in Brazil. Just checked and all four have such plans: Claro, Vivo, TIM and Oi. The bans were because the courts were trying to coerce WhatsApp into responding to subpoenas.
  - gavribirnbaum 6y ago
    I'm not sure that was the case 4 years ago. They first tried to beat it before joining it. The subpoenas were widely seen as a pretext among the population. It is Brazil: you have to read between the lines.
    - ratww 6y ago
      That's still sounds like a wild and unfounded accusation. And that was partially already the case a few years ago: TIM started free WhatsApp plans in 2014 [1]. Claro started in 2015 [2]. Oi started later, but it already had a similar plan in 2013 for Facebook Messenger, before WhatsApp acquisition [3]. Vivo seems to be the only holdout, starting in 2018, but that's far from proof that they were in bed with judges just to damage WhatsApp. And frankly, "you have to read between the lines" sounds like code for unfounded conspiracy theories. Unfortunately something that is currently destroying the country. [1] https://tecnoblog.net/170330/tim-controle-whatsapp-internet-ilimitada/ https://tecnoblog.net/170330/tim-controle-whatsapp-internet-... [2] https://gizmodo.uol.com.br/claro-turbinada-detalhes/ https://gizmodo.uol.com.br/claro-turbinada-detalhes/ [3] https://tecnoblog.net/131671/oi-facebook-messenger-de-graca/ https://tecnoblog.net/131671/oi-facebook-messenger-de-graca/
    - naivedevops 6y ago
sizeofchar 6y ago
There is nothing independent with Brazil’s court. They are just dismantling the executive powers so they and their own can be kept on power. In Brazil, the Supreme Court is filled by presidential choice. Brazil had 25 consecutive years with social democratic and socialists presidents, so that every justice currently have been put there by them. Now that democracy turned to the right-wing, the losers aren’t accepting the results and the reforms being made, that takes out their privileges and positions of power. I know barely nothing about India, but what you described certainly is not correlated to what is happening in Brazil.
- gavribirnbaum 6y ago
  True. You cannot expect the judicial to be apolitical if it is appointed by the other two highly political branches of government. But we pretend it is apolitical in Brazil and in the US.
  - mc32 6y ago
    There is a difference between political philosophy and being political. A judge may be liberal or conservative but it doesn’t follow that they would represent a party platform.
    - thecreamedcorn 6y ago
      Part of the point of the current US vetting process is to ensure judges have the same beliefs as the current party platform. Even if you put the political philosophy of judges on some sort of pedestal (which you probably shouldn't) they don't get appointed unless they have the "correct" politics.
fiatjaf 6y ago
You're glad that this independent court is censoring people?
- Barrin92 6y ago
  Yes, as in this case the posts in question include direct physical threats like threatening the children of judges with murder and rape. Using social media to threaten physical violence against Bolsonaro's opponents has been a theme all throughout his time in power.
  - sizeofchar 6y ago
    Absolutely none of the censored did threat with physical aggressions. It is quite the opposite. Bolsonaro was stabbed, and almost died, by a leftist activist, with former link to a far left party, PSOL. Dirceu, the strategist head of PT, the main opposition to Bolsonaro, gave an interview recently saying that “it is time to retake position of power, which is not the same as winning the elections”. Marcelo Freixo, currently the most popular politician from PSOL, was saying the left can’t simply resist the right, but must work to destroy it. Alexandre de Moraes, the justice that is censoring brazilians worldwide was for more than 15 years advocate to criminals pertaining to PCC, the biggest drug smugglers mafia in Brazil. He was put in the court after a very suspect plane crash which killed a justice that was incriminating our last former president, Michel Temer.
    - farias0 6y ago
      Dirceu's quote was retracted and said to be unfortunate. Also he was talking about a scenario where Bolsonaro executed a military coup. Freixo meant that about Bolsonarismo, not the right. Which is a sentiment I agree. Your claim about Alexandre de Moraes is conspiracy theory, there's no serious reason to believe he's involved on Zavascki's death. Yeah, Bolsonaro was stabbed by a nutjob, and STF's ministers and family constantly receive threats from people online. Both affirmations are true, although that's not the reason for the censoring in question. I completely agree STF went to far in this matter and it's worrying that they're starting to feel comfortable censoring speech. But nothing you said related to it. It feels like you're trying to imply "see, it's the left that's actually violent", which is not only unfaithful to the general public discourse in Brazil but also contributes to polarization without adding nothing to the discussion in hand.
dannyr 6y ago
Add Duterte to that list. He appointed 11 out of 15 justices to the Philippine Supreme Court.
sukilot 6y ago
Interesting but off-topic. Submit a new top-level post.
shripadk 6y ago
The Print is a Congress party affiliated publication with many of its writers having affiliation in some form with the Indian National Congress. What you posted are just allegations/innuendos against Modi. Nothing more. As far as Modi is concerned, he has been vilified for over 2 decades now. Enough crap has been said about him and none of it proven till date. He was not the Prime Minister for 1 full decade. If there was a shred of evidence against Modi that would have implicated him it would have gotten him behind bars. If you can't find even one case that can be taken to logical conclusion then the onus is on you to prove Modi is guilty and not on Modi to prove his innocence. The Congress party ruled from 2004 to 2014. And they hate Modi the most in India. Especially the top brass of the party. They tried every trick in the book and nothing stuck. So to say that Modi has control over all institutions is just baseless slander. Nothing more! The Print has openly advocated for spreading fake news against Modi Government [1]. I wouldn't even take them as a media publication. More a Congress mouthpiece. Direct quote from their article: "4. Compete: Across the world, fire-hosing of falsehood is becoming a powerful propaganda tool. Those who want to defeat such propaganda may have to do their own fire-hosing of falsehood. As the Hindi saying goes, iron cuts iron. When public opinion is being manipulated with fake news and lies, the opposition cannot win the game with mere fact-checking. It may have to do its own rapid and continuous misinformation with little regard for the truth. The RAND researchers suggest this is what the US should do against Russia." [1]: https://theprint.in/opinion/why-modi-government-gets-away-with-lies/422211/ https://theprint.in/opinion/why-modi-government-gets-away-wi...

m0zg 6y ago

And yet when I pointed out that you can't do business in India without paying bribes I was downvoted to hell. :-)

cscurmudgeon 6y ago

This is why I come to Hacker News. Absence of irrelevant political motivated posts with flimsy evidence.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

gavribirnbaum 6y ago

Brazilian here. Unfortunately I wouldn't call them independent. They simply represent the other side. Brazil is not as united behind Bolsonaro as the media makes out to be.

egeozcan 6y ago
I'm originally from Turkey, and that's also the case with Erdoğan. I mean, they wouldn't be dictators if everyone agreed with them, no? The big problem arising from the stark polarization is that there's no uncontaminated news sources anymore. Many argue that news should be political anyway but I really miss reading stuff that doesn't fit 100 percent to a single agenda.
- gavribirnbaum 6y ago
  Hold on, Bolsonaro is not a dictator. Federalism even recently screwed him over. He didn't act on COVID but individual states imposed their own measures and thankfully countered his opinion.
  - lkrubner 6y ago
    That's like saying Mussolini was not a dictator in 1922, because there were still so many factions competing against him in Italian politics. Possibly true, but it's also clear what direction he was heading. By 1925 he had largely consolidated his power.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - gavribirnbaum 6y ago
      Well I'm also super concerned that he has expressed dictatorial aspirations. But as of right now the constitution holds.
      - iandanforth 6y ago
        "Super concerned?" The guy wanted to celebrate the coup that started the last dictatorship. Stop splitting hairs. http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutional-support-for-the-brazilian-civil-military-dictatorship-of-1964-1985/ http://www.iconnectblog.com/2019/04/bolsonaros-unconstitutio... Note: Trump's call for postponing the election is exactly the same thing. Evidence they have no interest in constitutional democracy and will, at the earliest possible moment, impose total control on the country.

gavribirnbaum 6y ago

Last time I visited Brazil some 5 years ago, the courts would ban Whatsapp every couple months. They were in bed with telecom companies that hated that Whatsapp made many of their services free.

ratww 6y ago
That's a wildly uninformed accusation. There's a lot of problems with telecoms there, but WhatsApp actually has partnerships to enjoy "unlimited" bandwidth privileges with all four mobile operators in Brazil. Just checked and all four have such plans: Claro, Vivo, TIM and Oi. The bans were because the courts were trying to coerce WhatsApp into responding to subpoenas.
- gavribirnbaum 6y ago
  I'm not sure that was the case 4 years ago. They first tried to beat it before joining it. The subpoenas were widely seen as a pretext among the population. It is Brazil: you have to read between the lines.
  - ratww 6y ago
    That's still sounds like a wild and unfounded accusation. And that was partially already the case a few years ago: TIM started free WhatsApp plans in 2014 [1]. Claro started in 2015 [2]. Oi started later, but it already had a similar plan in 2013 for Facebook Messenger, before WhatsApp acquisition [3]. Vivo seems to be the only holdout, starting in 2018, but that's far from proof that they were in bed with judges just to damage WhatsApp. And frankly, "you have to read between the lines" sounds like code for unfounded conspiracy theories. Unfortunately something that is currently destroying the country. [1] https://tecnoblog.net/170330/tim-controle-whatsapp-internet-ilimitada/ https://tecnoblog.net/170330/tim-controle-whatsapp-internet-... [2] https://gizmodo.uol.com.br/claro-turbinada-detalhes/ https://gizmodo.uol.com.br/claro-turbinada-detalhes/ [3] https://tecnoblog.net/131671/oi-facebook-messenger-de-graca/ https://tecnoblog.net/131671/oi-facebook-messenger-de-graca/
  - naivedevops 6y ago

sizeofchar 6y ago

There is nothing independent with Brazil’s court. They are just dismantling the executive powers so they and their own can be kept on power. In Brazil, the Supreme Court is filled by presidential choice. Brazil had 25 consecutive years with social democratic and socialists presidents, so that every justice currently have been put there by them. Now that democracy turned to the right-wing, the losers aren’t accepting the results and the reforms being made, that takes out their privileges and positions of power. I know barely nothing about India, but what you described certainly is not correlated to what is happening in Brazil.

gavribirnbaum 6y ago
True. You cannot expect the judicial to be apolitical if it is appointed by the other two highly political branches of government. But we pretend it is apolitical in Brazil and in the US.
- mc32 6y ago
  There is a difference between political philosophy and being political. A judge may be liberal or conservative but it doesn’t follow that they would represent a party platform.
  - thecreamedcorn 6y ago
    Part of the point of the current US vetting process is to ensure judges have the same beliefs as the current party platform. Even if you put the political philosophy of judges on some sort of pedestal (which you probably shouldn't) they don't get appointed unless they have the "correct" politics.

fiatjaf 6y ago

You're glad that this independent court is censoring people?

Barrin92 6y ago
Yes, as in this case the posts in question include direct physical threats like threatening the children of judges with murder and rape. Using social media to threaten physical violence against Bolsonaro's opponents has been a theme all throughout his time in power.
- sizeofchar 6y ago
  Absolutely none of the censored did threat with physical aggressions. It is quite the opposite. Bolsonaro was stabbed, and almost died, by a leftist activist, with former link to a far left party, PSOL. Dirceu, the strategist head of PT, the main opposition to Bolsonaro, gave an interview recently saying that “it is time to retake position of power, which is not the same as winning the elections”. Marcelo Freixo, currently the most popular politician from PSOL, was saying the left can’t simply resist the right, but must work to destroy it. Alexandre de Moraes, the justice that is censoring brazilians worldwide was for more than 15 years advocate to criminals pertaining to PCC, the biggest drug smugglers mafia in Brazil. He was put in the court after a very suspect plane crash which killed a justice that was incriminating our last former president, Michel Temer.
  - farias0 6y ago
    Dirceu's quote was retracted and said to be unfortunate. Also he was talking about a scenario where Bolsonaro executed a military coup. Freixo meant that about Bolsonarismo, not the right. Which is a sentiment I agree. Your claim about Alexandre de Moraes is conspiracy theory, there's no serious reason to believe he's involved on Zavascki's death. Yeah, Bolsonaro was stabbed by a nutjob, and STF's ministers and family constantly receive threats from people online. Both affirmations are true, although that's not the reason for the censoring in question. I completely agree STF went to far in this matter and it's worrying that they're starting to feel comfortable censoring speech. But nothing you said related to it. It feels like you're trying to imply "see, it's the left that's actually violent", which is not only unfaithful to the general public discourse in Brazil but also contributes to polarization without adding nothing to the discussion in hand.

dannyr 6y ago

Add Duterte to that list. He appointed 11 out of 15 justices to the Philippine Supreme Court.

sukilot 6y ago

Interesting but off-topic. Submit a new top-level post.

shripadk 6y ago

The Print is a Congress party affiliated publication with many of its writers having affiliation in some form with the Indian National Congress. What you posted are just allegations/innuendos against Modi. Nothing more. As far as Modi is concerned, he has been vilified for over 2 decades now. Enough crap has been said about him and none of it proven till date. He was not the Prime Minister for 1 full decade. If there was a shred of evidence against Modi that would have implicated him it would have gotten him behind bars. If you can't find even one case that can be taken to logical conclusion then the onus is on you to prove Modi is guilty and not on Modi to prove his innocence. The Congress party ruled from 2004 to 2014. And they hate Modi the most in India. Especially the top brass of the party. They tried every trick in the book and nothing stuck. So to say that Modi has control over all institutions is just baseless slander. Nothing more! The Print has openly advocated for spreading fake news against Modi Government [1]. I wouldn't even take them as a media publication. More a Congress mouthpiece. Direct quote from their article: "4. Compete: Across the world, fire-hosing of falsehood is becoming a powerful propaganda tool. Those who want to defeat such propaganda may have to do their own fire-hosing of falsehood. As the Hindi saying goes, iron cuts iron. When public opinion is being manipulated with fake news and lies, the opposition cannot win the game with mere fact-checking. It may have to do its own rapid and continuous misinformation with little regard for the truth. The RAND researchers suggest this is what the US should do against Russia." [1]: https://theprint.in/opinion/why-modi-government-gets-away-with-lies/422211/ https://theprint.in/opinion/why-modi-government-gets-away-wi...