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> They're both tools for large power with supranational privileges for geopolitical interests. Which makes them directly comparable and functionally equivalent.

> They're both tools for large power with supranational privileges for geopolitical interests. Which makes them directly comparable and functionally equivalent. The Magnitsky acts are the US flexing its power in pursuit of human rights. The NSL is the CCP flexing its power to entrench its authoritarian hold over the Chinese diaspora and international business. That's a fundamental, moral difference. > Drawing up a list trying to label one group good and other group bad misses the point. No it perfectly illustrates my point. The targets of the Magnitsky acts are corrupt murderers. The targets of the NSL are democratic activists. > Each group is bad for interest for the respective countries, that's all that matters. Yeah but the CCP is evil, so groups that are bad for them (like democratic activists) are good. > Also, follow the news, Magnitsky was just applied to XinJiang paramilitary organization XPCC/Bingtuan. The CCP is committing an atrocity in Xinjiang, and the XPCC is the CCP government organization that's largely responsible. This is exactly what the Magnitsky acts are for. > ...just slapped the act 24 hours ago on an organization with 2.4 million people Let's have a look at what the order says: > As a result of today’s action, all property and interests in property of the [XPCC] and individuals named above, and of any entities that are owned, directly or indirectly, 50 percent or more by them, individually, or with other blocked persons, that are in the United States or in the possession or control of U.S. persons, are blocked.... So it's not all 2.4 million XPCC members. > US supranational instruments are being interpreted beyond their limits under this admin, especially Pompeo and his Chinahawk clique. Pompeo is, like the rest of the free world, critical of the CCP. That's different than being a "Chinahawk". > China announcing their own supranational instruments is overdue... The CCP has no moral authority to do so, therefore these "instruments" are hegemonic at best. > ...and all it does is target obviously anti-state actors... If your idea of an anti-state actor is this kid [1], I can't take you seriously. And you should say the whole thing: "anti-authoritarian-state actors". Or, "democracy activists" is shorter. > instead of something like the entire republican party, or entire US special operations command, which is downright restraint and responsible in comparison. Look I'm no fan of the GOP, but if they build an insane surveillance state in order to put 1-3 million ethnic/religious minorities in concentration camps indefinitely with no charges or trials where they experience "torture, rape, sterilization, and other abuses" [2], sure, freeze their accounts. [1]: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeJ-eZKUEAAZ3I2.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeJ-eZKUEAAZ3I2.jpg [2]: https://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/China_0.pdf https://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/China_0.pdf

dirtyid 6y ago
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist etc. There are 11 year olds in Abu Ghraib. No one thinks they should be there, but here we are. If you're position is US good, China bad, and Pompeo is not a China-hawk (forgone consensus among China watchers) then there's very little we can reconcile on. At the end of the day, these instruments aren't designed to be fair or moral, but welded for self-serving interests and China has hers. China didn't start the decoupling or cold war, nor start and continues to ramp up bellicose escalations. You're welcome to believe US/Pompeo is virtuous in their crusade, and CCP is bankrupt, but it doesn't stop the fact that China is big enough to respond, has responded, and will continue to.
- camgunz 6y ago
  > One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist etc. Having a BB gun in your backpack doesn't make you a terrorist [1]. This is absurd. > If you're position is US good, China bad, and Pompeo is not a China-hawk (forgone consensus among China watchers) then there's very little we can reconcile on. Pompeo appears to have had no position on China before becoming Secretary of State in '18. Furthermore he drew a clear distinction between the CCP and the Chinese people in his speech last week: "But our approach can’t just be about getting tough. That’s unlikely to achieve the outcome that we desire. We must also engage and empower the Chinese people, a dynamic, freedom-loving people who are completely distinct from the Chinese Communist Party." > China didn't start the decoupling or cold war, nor start and continues to ramp up bellicose escalations. The fact is that the CCP is a fascistic regime, and the US can no longer ignore it. We have been _exceedingly_ cool with them, have worked well together in the region, and we'd super love to get rich together. But we can't ignore the mass surveillance state. We can't ignore the Uighur concentration camps, the Great Firewall (and its DDoS attacks), the human rights abuses in Hong Kong, the invasion of India and the South China Sea, the missile-firing and election interference against Taiwan, the relentless cyberattacks, or honestly, just the fountain of cartoonish fury whenever someone tweets something like "Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong". > You're welcome to believe US/Pompeo is virtuous in their crusade, and CCP is bankrupt, but it doesn't stop the fact that China is big enough to respond, has responded, and will continue to. Well in US political terms I'm pretty progressive (the amount I donated to Senator Warren's presidential campaign is, uh, a good measure of my privilege haha) so I wouldn't say I believe either the US or Pompeo are "virtuous". What I will say though--to return to my original point--is that there is absolutely no comparison between the Magnitsky acts and the CCP's National Security Law. The Magnitsky acts target corrupt murderers; the NSL targets Hongkonger democracy activists. Case closed. I'll change my tune if the CCP writes up racist Alabama prosecutors though. Fair is fair (seriously). [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3024883/hong-kong-judge-rejects-retrial-teenage-independence https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/30...

dirtyid 6y ago

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist etc. There are 11 year olds in Abu Ghraib. No one thinks they should be there, but here we are. If you're position is US good, China bad, and Pompeo is not a China-hawk (forgone consensus among China watchers) then there's very little we can reconcile on. At the end of the day, these instruments aren't designed to be fair or moral, but welded for self-serving interests and China has hers. China didn't start the decoupling or cold war, nor start and continues to ramp up bellicose escalations. You're welcome to believe US/Pompeo is virtuous in their crusade, and CCP is bankrupt, but it doesn't stop the fact that China is big enough to respond, has responded, and will continue to.

camgunz 6y ago
> One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist etc. Having a BB gun in your backpack doesn't make you a terrorist [1]. This is absurd. > If you're position is US good, China bad, and Pompeo is not a China-hawk (forgone consensus among China watchers) then there's very little we can reconcile on. Pompeo appears to have had no position on China before becoming Secretary of State in '18. Furthermore he drew a clear distinction between the CCP and the Chinese people in his speech last week: "But our approach can’t just be about getting tough. That’s unlikely to achieve the outcome that we desire. We must also engage and empower the Chinese people, a dynamic, freedom-loving people who are completely distinct from the Chinese Communist Party." > China didn't start the decoupling or cold war, nor start and continues to ramp up bellicose escalations. The fact is that the CCP is a fascistic regime, and the US can no longer ignore it. We have been _exceedingly_ cool with them, have worked well together in the region, and we'd super love to get rich together. But we can't ignore the mass surveillance state. We can't ignore the Uighur concentration camps, the Great Firewall (and its DDoS attacks), the human rights abuses in Hong Kong, the invasion of India and the South China Sea, the missile-firing and election interference against Taiwan, the relentless cyberattacks, or honestly, just the fountain of cartoonish fury whenever someone tweets something like "Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong". > You're welcome to believe US/Pompeo is virtuous in their crusade, and CCP is bankrupt, but it doesn't stop the fact that China is big enough to respond, has responded, and will continue to. Well in US political terms I'm pretty progressive (the amount I donated to Senator Warren's presidential campaign is, uh, a good measure of my privilege haha) so I wouldn't say I believe either the US or Pompeo are "virtuous". What I will say though--to return to my original point--is that there is absolutely no comparison between the Magnitsky acts and the CCP's National Security Law. The Magnitsky acts target corrupt murderers; the NSL targets Hongkonger democracy activists. Case closed. I'll change my tune if the CCP writes up racist Alabama prosecutors though. Fair is fair (seriously). [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3024883/hong-kong-judge-rejects-retrial-teenage-independence https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/30...