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> China locks American companies out of its market This is something that is often claimed, but it doesn't reflect reality. China does not generally lock Amer

> China locks American companies out of its market This is something that is often claimed, but it doesn't reflect reality. China does not generally lock American companies out of its market. In fact, American companies have a far greater presence in the Chinese market than vice versa. For example, take a look at the 2017 China sales figures for a few American companies: [1] * Apple: $44.7 billion * Intel: $14.8 billion * Qualcomm: $14.6 billion * Boeing: $11.9 billion * Micron: $10.4 billion If you walk into any mall in China, you'll see American brands everywhere. Starbucks, KFC, McDonald's, tons of fashion brands, and on and on. The basic fact underlying all of this is that for decades, foreign direct investment flowed essentially in one direction: from the US to China. That reflected the fact that the US had capital, while China had labor. It's only recently that Chinese companies have begun expanding abroad, and FDI has started to go in the opposite direction. 1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-the-us-companies-with-the-most-at-stake-in-china-2018-03-29 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-...

lovehashbrowns 6y ago
Why is Google search not available in China?
polartx 6y ago
I worked for a company that provides web and app tracking (kinda like google analytics, but more granular data and user metrics). Any Chinese prospect that engaged with us had to use a myriad of proxies because the Chinese govt blocked our American servers. Also no Chinese prospect ever paid a dime. They would beg for extended trials and bring engineers in to ask questions about the software, requesting server side code, all the while they attempted rip off our product, after a year I became ‘too engaged’ with other projects to pursue opportunities with Chinese companies.
- eanzenberg 6y ago
  But what about equality of access and taking the high moral ground? /s
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
McDonald’s China is now wholly owned by Chinese investors. Starbucks has been trying to get rid of their state mandated JV partners for more than 15 years now.
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  McDonald's decided to sell most of its stake in 2017. It wasn't forced to. After the sale, McDonald's China was 52% Chinese-owned, and 48% American-owned. The latest news is that the Chinese group is trying to divest itself from McDonald's. Starbucks entered the Chinese market in 1999, when there were still JV requirements in its sector. Those requirements have been removed, and Starbucks bought out its Chinese JV partner in 2017.
crusty 6y ago
This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). IIRC, Foreign companies need to have majority-owner Chinese partner entities to "own" business operations in China. So a non-Chinese car company that wants to have ownership over it's Chinese assembly line operations and sales in China needs to partner with a Chinese company (typically another automaker) that actually owns >50% of the joint subsidiary that actually makes and or sells the cars. The alternative is Apple, which owns no manufacturing and had everything produced on contract from independent manufacturers. And again, none of this involves user data. Also, both the play store and Apple iOS store's content are at the mercy of the CCP gatekeepers, so even if a person in China can buy an apple product, they experience a different app ecosystem. I don't think there's a non-Chinese-owned company that has access to and stores user data streams, like a foreign-owned weibo or something, but I'd be curious if someone had an example.
- chrischen 6y ago
  > This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). How much do you think China makes on an iPhone? Most of the pricey parts are imported into China and just because the assembly happens in China doesn’t truth make it “made” in China. Even if you take lower margin brands like KFC, the US interests essentially rent-seek on that brand usage. You have to also understand that China is the economic underdog. In order to rise out of poverty they have to have some form of protectionist policies (which are not unique to China, as Japan also has heavy protectionist policies despite an already strong economy) or they’d be trampled by established foreign multinational giants. One country is a well to-do suburban college educated kid and the other is a poor high school dropout from the inner city. Their competition in the market would not be “fair” as their starting points would be unequal. That being said protectionist policies aren’t all good. They are a tradeoff that they chose to make and why they ended up with defective domestically produced infant baby formula, crappier internet search engines (which lead to wechat dominance), etc, whole local companies played slow catch up.
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  > IIRC, Foreign companies need to have majority-owner Chinese partner entities to "own" business operations in China. You recall incorrectly. You're describing the situation about 30 years ago, in the early stages of China's opening up. In the intervening time, restrictions have been dropped from most sectors (including the automotive sector - Tesla's Shanghai factory is a demonstration of this). The Chinese market is open both to direct investment (FDI, which I mentioned above), and to imports of foreign goods. American companies have much greater penetration into the Chinese market than vice versa. It's blindingly obvious if you've been in both countries.

lovehashbrowns 6y ago

Why is Google search not available in China?

polartx 6y ago

I worked for a company that provides web and app tracking (kinda like google analytics, but more granular data and user metrics). Any Chinese prospect that engaged with us had to use a myriad of proxies because the Chinese govt blocked our American servers. Also no Chinese prospect ever paid a dime. They would beg for extended trials and bring engineers in to ask questions about the software, requesting server side code, all the while they attempted rip off our product, after a year I became ‘too engaged’ with other projects to pursue opportunities with Chinese companies.

eanzenberg 6y ago
But what about equality of access and taking the high moral ground? /s

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

McDonald’s China is now wholly owned by Chinese investors. Starbucks has been trying to get rid of their state mandated JV partners for more than 15 years now.

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
McDonald's decided to sell most of its stake in 2017. It wasn't forced to. After the sale, McDonald's China was 52% Chinese-owned, and 48% American-owned. The latest news is that the Chinese group is trying to divest itself from McDonald's. Starbucks entered the Chinese market in 1999, when there were still JV requirements in its sector. Those requirements have been removed, and Starbucks bought out its Chinese JV partner in 2017.

crusty 6y ago

This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). IIRC, Foreign companies need to have majority-owner Chinese partner entities to "own" business operations in China. So a non-Chinese car company that wants to have ownership over it's Chinese assembly line operations and sales in China needs to partner with a Chinese company (typically another automaker) that actually owns >50% of the joint subsidiary that actually makes and or sells the cars. The alternative is Apple, which owns no manufacturing and had everything produced on contract from independent manufacturers. And again, none of this involves user data. Also, both the play store and Apple iOS store's content are at the mercy of the CCP gatekeepers, so even if a person in China can buy an apple product, they experience a different app ecosystem. I don't think there's a non-Chinese-owned company that has access to and stores user data streams, like a foreign-owned weibo or something, but I'd be curious if someone had an example.

chrischen 6y ago
> This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). How much do you think China makes on an iPhone? Most of the pricey parts are imported into China and just because the assembly happens in China doesn’t truth make it “made” in China. Even if you take lower margin brands like KFC, the US interests essentially rent-seek on that brand usage. You have to also understand that China is the economic underdog. In order to rise out of poverty they have to have some form of protectionist policies (which are not unique to China, as Japan also has heavy protectionist policies despite an already strong economy) or they’d be trampled by established foreign multinational giants. One country is a well to-do suburban college educated kid and the other is a poor high school dropout from the inner city. Their competition in the market would not be “fair” as their starting points would be unequal. That being said protectionist policies aren’t all good. They are a tradeoff that they chose to make and why they ended up with defective domestically produced infant baby formula, crappier internet search engines (which lead to wechat dominance), etc, whole local companies played slow catch up.
DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
> IIRC, Foreign companies need to have majority-owner Chinese partner entities to "own" business operations in China. You recall incorrectly. You're describing the situation about 30 years ago, in the early stages of China's opening up. In the intervening time, restrictions have been dropped from most sectors (including the automotive sector - Tesla's Shanghai factory is a demonstration of this). The Chinese market is open both to direct investment (FDI, which I mentioned above), and to imports of foreign goods. American companies have much greater penetration into the Chinese market than vice versa. It's blindingly obvious if you've been in both countries.