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How a $175 covid-19 test led to $2,479 in charges
- coldcode 6y agoWhereas in most countries on earth it costs the testee nothing directly.
- verroq 6y agoThe US government should be handing out those tests free.
- nrmitchi 6y agoThe US government _especially_ should be handling out tests for free, even if other countries or places in the worth charge a nominal amount. The US though is has two main problems that make any sort of charge ridiculous: First, there is a larger-than-normal section of the population that apparently believes the entire pandemic is a "giant hoax", and _most likely_ won't get tested anyways. Any charge at all would be s further hinderence Second, and most importantly, the US medical system has lost all trust when there is any charge whatsoever (such as in the related article), but more to the point, the system has lost all trust when there is any possible way that they could actually bill you. In the US I don't care if you tell me that something is going to be $5, or $50; if there is _any cost at all_, which means that _they have some way of billing me_, I have to operate on the assumption that I will at some point get mailed a bill for X thousands of dollars.
- the8472 6y ago> if there is _any cost at all_, which means that _they have some way of billing me_, I have to operate on the assumption that I will at some point get mailed a bill for X thousands of dollars. At least that particular issue could be avoided by making it a cash transaction.
- greeneggs 6y agoThere is limited testing availability across the US. Making the tests free encourages people with spare time to get tested repeatedly, at the cost of essential workers who then have a difficult time getting tested. In Los Angeles, there are free testing sites, and it is easy to find people who get tested so they can go to a big birthday party, then get tested again after the party. Each test costing the state >$100 and probably preventing someone in more need from getting a test.
- pessimizer 6y agoWhat part of this system makes it easier for essential workers to get tested? Limiting testing to the wealthy doesn't make it so a grocery store clerk or a bus driver gets a test any easier, it makes it harder.
- kube-system 6y agoThe US government will pay for tests, and they also require insurers to cover it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Families_First_Coronavirus_Response_Act#Coverage_for_COVID-19_testing_and_other_health_provisions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Families_First_Coronavirus_Res... The one insurance representative quoted in the article said they would cover the cost of the test. This article is more about providers billing for things that aren't the test.
- shajznnckfke 6y agoI have been tested in California multiple times by different providers and never had to pay.
- NicoJuicy 6y agoThat's not true, we pay 5€ in Belgium if you want do it on your own free-will. It's free if the government requires you to do so though. Fyi, phun intended because it's cheap
- pax 6y ago€5? Could you provide a link? there was a bit of scandal here in Romania with a picture of a €19 covid test from Germany, which made the rounds, shared even by some politicians – which later proved to be fake. Tests being €70-90
- mping 6y agoI payed 40x2 for igg and igm antibody tests, on my own free will.
- NicoJuicy 6y agoRandom one: https://www.riziv.fgov.be/nl/covid19/Paginas/terugbetalingsvoorwaarden-opsporingstesten-coronavirus-covid19-pandemie.aspx https://www.riziv.fgov.be/nl/covid19/Paginas/terugbetalingsv... I will look up the 5€ one later, didn't saw your message before
- nrmitchi 6y agoHaha I totally see your point, but in the US, anything related to health-care that is 5€ is basically considered "free". I do actually agree with charge though, such as 5€. The point isn't to charge a "you're paying for the test" amount, but more of a "please don't come asking to be tested every day" amount.
- seibelj 6y agoCheck out the book Overcharged if you want a fairly quick read that explains the healthcare scam from top to bottom https://www.amazon.com/Overcharged-Americans-Much-Health-Care/dp/1944424768 https://www.amazon.com/Overcharged-Americans-Much-Health-Car... Easiest way to get rich in America is to start a health clinic and start billing Medicare. Absolute trash from top to bottom.
- jessaustin 6y agoPerhaps it's easier to bill Medicare than private insurance, because at some point Medicare will actually pay for the work that physicians have already done? Most doctors would be happy to return to the old patient-pays-on-the-day-of-treatment model, and health care costs would be much lower, but in that case some provision would have to be made for poor people.
- simion314 6y agoA good solution for US problems is easy to fine, you create a competent team, you analyze 5 different countries with good health care systems(for ex you could have 10 scenarios and you analyze what happens and how much it costs). You make some decision and maybe reduce the possible implementation from 5 to 3 or 3, you then do some calculations on how much money is saved and how much people will have to pay. You create some educational/informational materials and then vote on it or do a referendum. But you need politicians to take this serious, have them nominate specialists int he team that will do the analysis and accept the conclusions and promise not to change their mind in 4 years. From what I read the current system is a lose=lose for both poor and rich and only a small number of people benefit.
- jessaustin 6y agoWe've been hoping for politicians to easily find this good solution for at least 30 years now. At this point we can safely say that's not going to happen. The system we have does not "fix" itself. The fact that we can clearly see who is stealing most of our money makes the problem harder to solve, not easier. The moment a credible threat of improvement arises (e.g. Hillary in 1993 or Obama in 2009) the insurance industry pulls out all the stops, blasting Capitol Hill with the combined volume of a thousand wailing lobbyists. Even if we could somehow overpower the insurers, we shouldn't underestimate the usefulness of a completely insecure workforce and consumer base to other sectors of the capitalist cabal. USA at its current size can't solve any of its real problems. There are too many brake levers installed within easy reach of too many cronyist assholes. Just look at this COVID-19 shitshow. After California leaves and takes a few other western states with them, New Mexico and half of Texas join "old" Mexico, much of New England tries to join Canada and then just go their own way when Canada won't take them, Florida is inundated, etc... perhaps the rest of us might have a chance to better arrange the crumbs with which we're left. We'll certainly be less of a danger to the Middle East...
- stevespang 6y ago"De Cordova is an attorney who specializes in civil litigation defense and maritime law. She cringes when she’s asked to sign away her rights and scrutinizes the fine print" So why did she even sign their papers or subject herself to this bogus emergency center ? Braindead attorney.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- bsenftner 6y agoSatanically criminal, yet legal in the United States - USA #1? What a sad joke this "united" states is.
- mindslight 6y agoThese articles always leave out whether and how much the person actually ended up paying. Being an attorney, she should not have paid more than $175. Medical providers get away with playing price roulette under the theory that when you show up and ask for help, they're entitled to fair compensation for their services. Their billing department then goes to work manufacturing a bill that justifies "costs" much higher than they actually incur, and there is no specific way to refute them. But in this case, she had a contract for those services at $175. The provider can't just decide that they deserve more than their contracted rate and send her an additional bill. That would be like going to the grocery store, paying your total at the checkout, and then receiving a bill in the mail for the cashier's time under a theory that you had only paid for the food. Since the victim here is an attorney, writing a strongly worded letter repudiating the fraudulent bills should have come naturally. Did she do this? Did the provider then go to court and successfully substantiate their fraud, or what? edit: I don't know what the downvotes are for. Reading the article again, I guess she ended up punting to insurance and so far has personally paid $0. Although her insurance states that she may have to pay "up to $600", so the matter doesn't seem over. These stories always lack so much agency, its frustrating. The cost disease is a problem, and it seems none of the businesses involved have an incentive to reign it in. Apart from the future possibility of single payer, cash payers are currently one of the few checks on the market. But the dynamic is never fully explored - just because someone sends you a bill does not mean you have to pay it!
- pessimizer 6y agoMy downvote is partially because you seem to be objecting based on what you think "can't just" happen, rather than on observations of what did happen, or citations of relevant law. Additionally, you have specific objections based on what you've decided that this specific person should be capable of and what should come natural to them, and also assuming that this action would be productive (rather than costing more than $2500 to see through.) Seeing as the larger question isn't about how much lawyers are charged, but how much people in general are charged, it seems like a irrelevant observation. I don't think you meant to sound like this to anyone, and I think we're probably on the same side of the issue. To me, getting bogged down in specifics is an enemy to systemic change (only when the specifics don't threaten to contradict the general case - when they do, specifics are of course important.) If I know of a good way for a particular person to get out of an irrationally inflated medical bill, that's really something that I should be communicating with that person. If I see that people in general don't use a good method (that I am personally aware of) to get out of irrationally inflated medical bills, then either 1) the system is broken because it's not automatically funneling people toward that method, or 2) if everybody used that method, it would start to fail, which means that the solution was never a universal one.
- jarym 6y agoI live in Europe and I never understood the in-network and out-of-network concept (I know what it is, I just see it is ripe for abuse). So I wonder, why hasn't Congress enacted legislation to put a ceiling on out-of-network charges to (say) 2x the median in-network charge?
- zajd 6y ago> why hasn't Congress enacted legislation to put a ceiling on out-of-network charges Because they are bought and paid by the same people profiting off the system.
- shadowmore 6y agoBecause "muh free market". Even in 2020, both conservatives and liberals (the non-radicals on both sides) still cling to the idea of lack of regulation being a good thing, despite decades of evidence to the contrary. The liberals are softening on this because they don't counter-signal the radicals on their side, while the conservatives actively demonize the radicals on theirs. As a result, only one radical fraction of one half of the political duopoly actually has both the desire and energy to enact this kind of legislation, and that isn't enough.
- refurb 6y agoHealthcare in the US is incredibly regulated already. And one reason for the wacky pricing is bad regulation. Well, regulation with good intentions and bad outcomes. For example, there is a law that all hospitals need to maintain a chargemaster list and that no customer can be charged more than the price listed. Sounds great! Well, because hospitals are allowed to negotiate discounts, the most rationale thing to do is make your chargemaster price so high that it will never impact your business. Have a procedure you charge $1,000 for typically? Make the chargemaster price $10,000. That way it will give you some room to up your price to customers (say double it to $2,000). Problem solved for the hospital! So the regulation solved nothing and actually incentivized negative behavior.
- mancerayder 6y ago
- xyst 6y agoFreestanding ERs are the payday loan scams of the health industry.
- mnm1 6y agoIt's unbelievable to think that the government couldn't even roll out the free testing. The most basic part of fighting corona and they couldn't even get that right. At least now we can stop pretending we don't live in a third world country. No wonder the pandemic is so bad here. Literally nothing is being done. If it's this costly and hard to get a test, we have no hope whatsoever other than a vaccine that may never come. Barring that, it's herd immunity and all the disability and death that comes along with that. Great job of the government to protect its people. A police state with some of the most far reaching powers this side of traditional authoritarianism, and they can't enforce mask wearing and business closures. But they have no problem arresting people for smoking weed or murdering people by kneeling on their necks. America has finally become great, the number one country it believes in delusion to be. Too bad that number one position is in the number of corona cases and deaths. Then again, what can one expect from a third world country even its own president called a "shithole"?
- wil421 6y agoIt’s not that the government couldn’t roll out testing they don’t want to test.
- bb88 6y ago“You can’t do that. It’s insurance fraud for you to pay for our services once we know you have insurance.”