7 ms·

Japan's Brand New Bullet Train Is Earthquake-Proof

52 points by prostoalex 6y ago

mensetmanusman 6y ago
They chose the wrong disaster to optimize for. A pandemic proof design would have also resulted in less assault on their women by other passengers.
- FriendlyNormie 6y ago
  Shut up you baizuo cultural imperialist faggot. The Japanese can conduct themselves however they want. Eat shit and die.
- supportlocal4h 6y ago
  How common are assaults on Japanese bullet trains? Even very old bullet trains in Japan should be highly pandemic-resistant, and not any more prone to assault than, say, your average commercial airplane.
  - joshguthrie 6y ago
    Assaults mostly happen on crowded subway trains during rush hours. The solution to that has been to make some cars women-only.
    - supportlocal4h 6y ago
      The topic is Japanese bullet trains. And dedicated cars is a disappointing solution. Unfortunately, having any witness call out the perpetrator and let the crowd break the perps fingers is not a very suitable solution, either. A more obvious step is to limit the occupancy of a car. I've been smashed into the crowded cars. It's a bad idea for more reasons than this. But if you cut the occupancy to 1/3, you have to run 3x as many cars. Maybe start by charging 2x for rush hour or otherwise peak times to pay for 2x the trains. Of course, there is a limit to the number of cars you can put on a track. But if it takes more money to build more capacity, raise prices. It's not a problem easily solved with a single paragraph on HN. "Dedicated cars for women" takes a lot less thought and accomplishes much. It just doesn't address the real social problem.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  bullet trains are not where groping happens... everyone has a seat in bullet trains, except for rare exceptions like Golden Week or end of the year holidays where Shinkansen sometimes run over capacity.
  - imjared 6y ago
    and, speaking from experience, the "slow" tourist one that's included with the JR pass. On the way to Osaka from Iwakuni, we found ourselves with a few other tourists getting to ride the Shin sitting on our luggage at the back of one of the cars. Not a horrible experience, obviously, and gave us the opportunity to have a nice 45 minute chat about "WE ARE IN JAPAN AND IT IS THE BEST" with people we wouldn't have otherwise met. I got such a kick out of the "slow" shin still being worlds better than anything here in the USA.
mnky9800n 6y ago
The Japanese also thought a very large magnitude earthquake couldn't happen in the tohoku region. Never say never.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  Also Kobe was declared as a safe city before 1995, where earthquakes don't happen. They were badly surprised when the Great Hanshin earthquake hit.
- fomine3 6y ago
  The earthquake was not expected well but not thought as couldn't happen.
  - mnky9800n 6y ago
    No the seismic hazard models were not designed to account for a rupture across all the zones. The earthquake was not anticipated. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0040195112003721 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00401...
    - fomine3 6y ago
      Not anticipated but it not means thought as couldn't happen. Most earthquakes are not well anticipated. I also doubt whether the model useful.
supernova87a 6y ago
The article asks "why can't we have one?" Well, when you can get political, social, and financial factors in the US to give input to <xyz> rail system that such a kind of train service is desired and worth the cost/benefit valued by those parties, then we'll have it. Otherwise, we're stuck with Amtrak for the moment.
- sfifs 6y ago
  Looking from outside, the ability to act together as a society to achieve a socially desirable outcome seems to slipping in the West. There's a point where the balance in society between duties and entitlements seems to have flipped.
  - Mirioron 6y ago
    The issue seems to be scale. Governments aren't willing to take on large scale projects, because they're hard and long. They want to do (new) things that are easy with a short term return on investment. Thinking about it, it feels a bit like a modern company. Instead of managers wanting to show that they did something good to get a raise, instead we have politicians that try to show that they did something good to get reelected.
  - haram_masala 6y ago
    This is an unfortunate consequence of an increasingly diverse and multicultural society. Multiculturalism decreases trust in a community and as such corrodes social capital.
    - mikepurvis 6y ago
      Plenty of places in Europe are just as diverse as the US and still manage to come together and collectively fund important civil and social priorities. Maybe you're just trolling; I can't really tell.
      - rubber_duck 6y ago
jamestimmins 6y ago
Standing in a train station as a Shinkansen roars through without stopping was one of the most exhilarating things I've experienced. Worth the trip to Japan just for that alone.
- benbristow 6y ago
  It really is amazing! Like being in a wind tunnel almost. Got to go on the Shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo and back. Expensive but wouldn't have been a visit to Japan without it as a train fan.
  - nereye 6y ago
    It’s expensive if you reside in Japan. If you’re visiting you can get all-you-can eat rail travel (including Shinkansen, though only a limited choice) for relatively little money, e.g. one week for less than $300 and two weeks for less than $450), see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Rail_Pass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Rail_Pass.
    - benbristow 6y ago
      Unfortunately it wasn’t planned so I bought it on the spot. Cost £200 or around 28k yen.
    - ericd 6y ago
      It’s great, but make sure to order it before you get there.
      - awslattery 6y ago
        And there are calculators online to tell you if it is worth it for your itinerary.
    - mlindner 6y ago
      The Japan Rail Pass doesn't let you ride the fastest Shikansen variants (namely the ones that stop at the fewest stations), FYI.
benbristow 6y ago
Interestingly the Japanese shinkansen system has seismic detectors all over the route. If there's enough activity detected then it can automatically stop all trains. Clever stuff.
- bamboozled 6y ago
  I’d say this isn’t just clever, it’s absolutely necessary
- kalleboo 6y ago
  Japan as a country has seismic detectors all over. These are fed into a centralized earthquake early warning system that stops not only Shinkansen, but other trains, elevators, alerts surgeons in hospitals, sends out broadcast push notifications to phones, etc. The system is so fast that the notifications arrive to areas beyond the epicenter before the seismic waves themselves, giving people and devices precious seconds to prepare [0] Compare the number of seismographs in Japan https://www.jma.go.jp/jma/en/Activities/image/earth-fig02.png https://www.jma.go.jp/jma/en/Activities/image/earth-fig02.pn... To California (only the green ones exist, blue are proposals) https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2018/10/CA_EERStation_Status_September2018.jpg https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2018/10/CA_... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_Early_Warning_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_Early_Warning_(Japa...
  - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
    For reference, here are the two maps superimposed on one another at the same scale (again, only the green markers are real markers on the California map). [1] https://ibb.co/x5tLwHf https://ibb.co/x5tLwHf
  - shalmanese 6y ago
    > The system is so fast that the notifications arrive to areas beyond the epicenter before the seismic waves themselves, giving people and devices precious seconds to prepare TBF, even Twitter is a "notification system fast enough to arrive in areas before the seismic wave". There's been numerous reports of twitter users seeing tweets about an earthquake before experiencing the shock wave. Building a system that can do that reliably is an engineering feat but we're talking on the order of 10s of seconds, not milliseconds.
ve55 6y ago
Related, this is a great post by patio11 on one of the last large Japanese earthquakes and how it was handled by various systems: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/13/some-perspective-on-the-japan-earthquake/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/13/some-perspective-on-the...
- knolax 6y ago
  The secret whitepaper guy? No thanks.
tus88 6y ago
Misleading title. Retorted.
jcrawfordor 6y ago
A project to implement a similar earthquake early warning system for the earthquake-prone west coast of the united states has faced a lot of difficulty in obtaining funding but is slowly making progress. They are currently developing alert communication systems and integrations with automated controls, and have complete sensor networks for just a few areas. https://www.shakealert.org/ https://www.shakealert.org/

52 points by prostoalex 6y ago

They chose the wrong disaster to optimize for. A pandemic proof design would have also resulted in less assault on their women by other passengers.

FriendlyNormie 6y ago
Shut up you baizuo cultural imperialist faggot. The Japanese can conduct themselves however they want. Eat shit and die.
supportlocal4h 6y ago
How common are assaults on Japanese bullet trains? Even very old bullet trains in Japan should be highly pandemic-resistant, and not any more prone to assault than, say, your average commercial airplane.
- joshguthrie 6y ago
  Assaults mostly happen on crowded subway trains during rush hours. The solution to that has been to make some cars women-only.
  - supportlocal4h 6y ago
    The topic is Japanese bullet trains. And dedicated cars is a disappointing solution. Unfortunately, having any witness call out the perpetrator and let the crowd break the perps fingers is not a very suitable solution, either. A more obvious step is to limit the occupancy of a car. I've been smashed into the crowded cars. It's a bad idea for more reasons than this. But if you cut the occupancy to 1/3, you have to run 3x as many cars. Maybe start by charging 2x for rush hour or otherwise peak times to pay for 2x the trains. Of course, there is a limit to the number of cars you can put on a track. But if it takes more money to build more capacity, raise prices. It's not a problem easily solved with a single paragraph on HN. "Dedicated cars for women" takes a lot less thought and accomplishes much. It just doesn't address the real social problem.
ekianjo 6y ago
bullet trains are not where groping happens... everyone has a seat in bullet trains, except for rare exceptions like Golden Week or end of the year holidays where Shinkansen sometimes run over capacity.
- imjared 6y ago
  and, speaking from experience, the "slow" tourist one that's included with the JR pass. On the way to Osaka from Iwakuni, we found ourselves with a few other tourists getting to ride the Shin sitting on our luggage at the back of one of the cars. Not a horrible experience, obviously, and gave us the opportunity to have a nice 45 minute chat about "WE ARE IN JAPAN AND IT IS THE BEST" with people we wouldn't have otherwise met. I got such a kick out of the "slow" shin still being worlds better than anything here in the USA.

mnky9800n 6y ago

The Japanese also thought a very large magnitude earthquake couldn't happen in the tohoku region. Never say never.

ekianjo 6y ago
Also Kobe was declared as a safe city before 1995, where earthquakes don't happen. They were badly surprised when the Great Hanshin earthquake hit.
fomine3 6y ago
The earthquake was not expected well but not thought as couldn't happen.
- mnky9800n 6y ago
  No the seismic hazard models were not designed to account for a rupture across all the zones. The earthquake was not anticipated. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0040195112003721 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00401...
  - fomine3 6y ago
    Not anticipated but it not means thought as couldn't happen. Most earthquakes are not well anticipated. I also doubt whether the model useful.

supernova87a 6y ago

The article asks "why can't we have one?" Well, when you can get political, social, and financial factors in the US to give input to <xyz> rail system that such a kind of train service is desired and worth the cost/benefit valued by those parties, then we'll have it. Otherwise, we're stuck with Amtrak for the moment.

sfifs 6y ago
Looking from outside, the ability to act together as a society to achieve a socially desirable outcome seems to slipping in the West. There's a point where the balance in society between duties and entitlements seems to have flipped.
- Mirioron 6y ago
  The issue seems to be scale. Governments aren't willing to take on large scale projects, because they're hard and long. They want to do (new) things that are easy with a short term return on investment. Thinking about it, it feels a bit like a modern company. Instead of managers wanting to show that they did something good to get a raise, instead we have politicians that try to show that they did something good to get reelected.
- haram_masala 6y ago
  This is an unfortunate consequence of an increasingly diverse and multicultural society. Multiculturalism decreases trust in a community and as such corrodes social capital.
  - mikepurvis 6y ago
    Plenty of places in Europe are just as diverse as the US and still manage to come together and collectively fund important civil and social priorities. Maybe you're just trolling; I can't really tell.
    - rubber_duck 6y ago

jamestimmins 6y ago

Standing in a train station as a Shinkansen roars through without stopping was one of the most exhilarating things I've experienced. Worth the trip to Japan just for that alone.

benbristow 6y ago
It really is amazing! Like being in a wind tunnel almost. Got to go on the Shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo and back. Expensive but wouldn't have been a visit to Japan without it as a train fan.
- nereye 6y ago
  It’s expensive if you reside in Japan. If you’re visiting you can get all-you-can eat rail travel (including Shinkansen, though only a limited choice) for relatively little money, e.g. one week for less than $300 and two weeks for less than $450), see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Rail_Pass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Rail_Pass.
  - benbristow 6y ago
    Unfortunately it wasn’t planned so I bought it on the spot. Cost £200 or around 28k yen.
  - ericd 6y ago
    It’s great, but make sure to order it before you get there.
    - awslattery 6y ago
      And there are calculators online to tell you if it is worth it for your itinerary.
  - mlindner 6y ago
    The Japan Rail Pass doesn't let you ride the fastest Shikansen variants (namely the ones that stop at the fewest stations), FYI.

benbristow 6y ago

Interestingly the Japanese shinkansen system has seismic detectors all over the route. If there's enough activity detected then it can automatically stop all trains. Clever stuff.

bamboozled 6y ago
I’d say this isn’t just clever, it’s absolutely necessary
kalleboo 6y ago
Japan as a country has seismic detectors all over. These are fed into a centralized earthquake early warning system that stops not only Shinkansen, but other trains, elevators, alerts surgeons in hospitals, sends out broadcast push notifications to phones, etc. The system is so fast that the notifications arrive to areas beyond the epicenter before the seismic waves themselves, giving people and devices precious seconds to prepare [0] Compare the number of seismographs in Japan https://www.jma.go.jp/jma/en/Activities/image/earth-fig02.png https://www.jma.go.jp/jma/en/Activities/image/earth-fig02.pn... To California (only the green ones exist, blue are proposals) https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2018/10/CA_EERStation_Status_September2018.jpg https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2018/10/CA_... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_Early_Warning_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_Early_Warning_(Japa...
- JoshuaDavid 6y ago
  For reference, here are the two maps superimposed on one another at the same scale (again, only the green markers are real markers on the California map). [1] https://ibb.co/x5tLwHf https://ibb.co/x5tLwHf
- shalmanese 6y ago
  > The system is so fast that the notifications arrive to areas beyond the epicenter before the seismic waves themselves, giving people and devices precious seconds to prepare TBF, even Twitter is a "notification system fast enough to arrive in areas before the seismic wave". There's been numerous reports of twitter users seeing tweets about an earthquake before experiencing the shock wave. Building a system that can do that reliably is an engineering feat but we're talking on the order of 10s of seconds, not milliseconds.

ve55 6y ago

Related, this is a great post by patio11 on one of the last large Japanese earthquakes and how it was handled by various systems: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/13/some-perspective-on-the-japan-earthquake/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/13/some-perspective-on-the...

knolax 6y ago
The secret whitepaper guy? No thanks.

tus88 6y ago

Misleading title. Retorted.

jcrawfordor 6y ago

A project to implement a similar earthquake early warning system for the earthquake-prone west coast of the united states has faced a lot of difficulty in obtaining funding but is slowly making progress. They are currently developing alert communication systems and integrations with automated controls, and have complete sensor networks for just a few areas. https://www.shakealert.org/ https://www.shakealert.org/