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I never really understood the panic over TikTok. Is the fear about security, or is the fear that China might actually have successful social media product in th

I never really understood the panic over TikTok. Is the fear about security, or is the fear that China might actually have successful social media product in the US?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
The fear is that any large Chinese project holding the personal data of Americans is inherently a security concern. It wouldn't be a big issue if Tiktok were French or Korean or something.
- emptysongglass 6y ago
  This is exactly it. There's widespread fear that China is buying its way into the personal data of billions through its state-sponsored businesses like Huawei and ByteDance.
  - franklampard 6y ago
    Is TikTok really state-sponsored? Do you have any source?
    - emptysongglass 6y ago
      It's not that ByteDance, owners of TikTok, are especially state-sponsored (though given the treasure trove of user data they're sitting on, especial isn't a stretch of the imagination): all Chinese corporations are either actively overseen by a CCP committee or potentials to be. See https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-the-role-of-chinese-communist-party-committees/ https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-th...
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      The CEO and cofounder has gone on record (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/05/tiktok-leader-schedules-washington-trip-meet-with-lawmakers-investigations-loom/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/05/tiktok-..., linking to a parent source https://chinamediaproject.org/2018/04/11/tech-shame-in-the-new-era/ https://chinamediaproject.org/2018/04/11/tech-shame-in-the-n...) pledging that he'd run the company in accordance with socialist values and the principles of Xi Jinping Thought. The degree of financial relationship is unknown and probably unknowable, but it seems clear that ByteDance feels obligated to behave how the government wants.
      - mullingitover 6y ago
        Even if TikTok was openly promoting socialism - so what? The constitution doesn't split hairs about free speech. We're free to use speech to promote the political philosophy of our choosing in this country. The antidote to 'bad' speech, as per the constitution, is more speech, not to outlaw the speech you don't like.
        SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        There's nothing wrong with speech we don't like, unless (as in this case) it's made at the direction of a foreign government. There's long-standing precedent for preventing that kind of thing.
        mullingitover 6y ago
        > There's nothing wrong with speech we don't like, unless (as in this case) it's made at the direction of a foreign government. I mean, we don't ban China Daily. Also, and I'm going to have to check with someone who uses TikTok, but I don't think the Chinese government is giving orders to TikTok users about what to songs they're supposed to dance to on any given day.
        dodobirdlord 6y ago
        > Also, and I'm going to have to check with someone who uses TikTok, but I don't think the Chinese government is giving orders to TikTok users about what to songs they're supposed to dance to on any given day. They could, though. China is welcome to repeal those laws if they don't want the rest of the world to assume that they use them...
        khuey 6y ago
        The government of China doesn't have a First Amendment right to free speech in the United States.
        mullingitover 6y ago
    - sgillen 6y ago
      I think there is also the impression that, even if china has not already been leaning on TikTok, if they ever did TikTok would necessarily relent. Whereas in the US we have examples of companies (e.g. apple) denying requests from the Feds. Now I'm not saying this is necessarily true, but I think that is where the concern is coming from.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jtmarmon 6y ago
Speaking personally, here's why TikTok concerns me: TikTok is a Chinese business, and China has shown no limit to how much it will meddle in the affairs of and even take control of Chinese businesses for the furthering of the Chinese state's agenda. Simultaneously, TikTok has captured the daily attention spans of millions of Americans, many of them especially young and impressionable. They've captured their attention in the form of a black box algorithm that promotes content in whichever way TikTok deems most appropriate. These two facts mean that the Chinese government now has direct access to the brains of millions of young Americans, with zero oversight. Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. These might sound like far flung possibilities, but I think it's hard to say what a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically) might do with that kind of power, and I don't think we can wait to find out.
- hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
  Does China really identify as "a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically)" or is that just a projection of how the US feels about China?
  - tempodox 6y ago
    Absolutely. China does not recognize even the idea of Human Rights, let alone their implementation. What do you think the Great Chinese Firewall is for? Shutting out all those ideas from the rest of the world that are deemed hostile to the ruling party's ideology.
    - altaria 6y ago
      America is a fundamentally revolutionary nation fighting for global democracy. We have learned not to force it on countries anymore with violence, but the struggle for global democracy remains nonetheless. We are an existential threat to China.
      - 6y ago
techntoke 6y ago
TikTok has been caught violating COPPA. One of my kids recently signed up for TikTok without any age verification using their Android Google account, which then shares their email address with TikTok which is clear violation of COPPA. Nothing is being done to prevent this. TikTok actively caters to underage youth and most of the community is about producing provocative dance videos. In the end, TikTok is full of underage kids being provocative and is a cesspool and playground for pedophiles.

I never really understood the panic over TikTok. Is the fear about security, or is the fear that China might actually have successful social media product in the US?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

The fear is that any large Chinese project holding the personal data of Americans is inherently a security concern. It wouldn't be a big issue if Tiktok were French or Korean or something.

emptysongglass 6y ago
This is exactly it. There's widespread fear that China is buying its way into the personal data of billions through its state-sponsored businesses like Huawei and ByteDance.
- franklampard 6y ago
  Is TikTok really state-sponsored? Do you have any source?
  - emptysongglass 6y ago
    It's not that ByteDance, owners of TikTok, are especially state-sponsored (though given the treasure trove of user data they're sitting on, especial isn't a stretch of the imagination): all Chinese corporations are either actively overseen by a CCP committee or potentials to be. See https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-the-role-of-chinese-communist-party-committees/ https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/politics-in-the-boardroom-th...
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    The CEO and cofounder has gone on record (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/05/tiktok-leader-schedules-washington-trip-meet-with-lawmakers-investigations-loom/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/05/tiktok-..., linking to a parent source https://chinamediaproject.org/2018/04/11/tech-shame-in-the-new-era/ https://chinamediaproject.org/2018/04/11/tech-shame-in-the-n...) pledging that he'd run the company in accordance with socialist values and the principles of Xi Jinping Thought. The degree of financial relationship is unknown and probably unknowable, but it seems clear that ByteDance feels obligated to behave how the government wants.
    - mullingitover 6y ago
      Even if TikTok was openly promoting socialism - so what? The constitution doesn't split hairs about free speech. We're free to use speech to promote the political philosophy of our choosing in this country. The antidote to 'bad' speech, as per the constitution, is more speech, not to outlaw the speech you don't like.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        There's nothing wrong with speech we don't like, unless (as in this case) it's made at the direction of a foreign government. There's long-standing precedent for preventing that kind of thing.
        mullingitover 6y ago
        > There's nothing wrong with speech we don't like, unless (as in this case) it's made at the direction of a foreign government. I mean, we don't ban China Daily. Also, and I'm going to have to check with someone who uses TikTok, but I don't think the Chinese government is giving orders to TikTok users about what to songs they're supposed to dance to on any given day.
        dodobirdlord 6y ago
        > Also, and I'm going to have to check with someone who uses TikTok, but I don't think the Chinese government is giving orders to TikTok users about what to songs they're supposed to dance to on any given day. They could, though. China is welcome to repeal those laws if they don't want the rest of the world to assume that they use them...
      - khuey 6y ago
        The government of China doesn't have a First Amendment right to free speech in the United States.
        mullingitover 6y ago
  - sgillen 6y ago
    I think there is also the impression that, even if china has not already been leaning on TikTok, if they ever did TikTok would necessarily relent. Whereas in the US we have examples of companies (e.g. apple) denying requests from the Feds. Now I'm not saying this is necessarily true, but I think that is where the concern is coming from.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jtmarmon 6y ago

Speaking personally, here's why TikTok concerns me: TikTok is a Chinese business, and China has shown no limit to how much it will meddle in the affairs of and even take control of Chinese businesses for the furthering of the Chinese state's agenda. Simultaneously, TikTok has captured the daily attention spans of millions of Americans, many of them especially young and impressionable. They've captured their attention in the form of a black box algorithm that promotes content in whichever way TikTok deems most appropriate. These two facts mean that the Chinese government now has direct access to the brains of millions of young Americans, with zero oversight. Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. These might sound like far flung possibilities, but I think it's hard to say what a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically) might do with that kind of power, and I don't think we can wait to find out.

hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
Does China really identify as "a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically)" or is that just a projection of how the US feels about China?
- tempodox 6y ago
  Absolutely. China does not recognize even the idea of Human Rights, let alone their implementation. What do you think the Great Chinese Firewall is for? Shutting out all those ideas from the rest of the world that are deemed hostile to the ruling party's ideology.
  - altaria 6y ago
    America is a fundamentally revolutionary nation fighting for global democracy. We have learned not to force it on countries anymore with violence, but the struggle for global democracy remains nonetheless. We are an existential threat to China.
    - 6y ago

techntoke 6y ago

TikTok has been caught violating COPPA. One of my kids recently signed up for TikTok without any age verification using their Android Google account, which then shares their email address with TikTok which is clear violation of COPPA. Nothing is being done to prevent this. TikTok actively caters to underage youth and most of the community is about producing provocative dance videos. In the end, TikTok is full of underage kids being provocative and is a cesspool and playground for pedophiles.