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You've got to make yourself responsible for your emotional reality, because you're the only one who can consistently influence it. Or at least, it's up to you w

You've got to make yourself responsible for your emotional reality, because you're the only one who can consistently influence it. Or at least, it's up to you whether you allow others to influence it. No one denies that people really are victimized. But whether they let that victim vs. perpetrator mindset play out in their other relationships and lived experiences is (with time and practice) up to them.

watwut 6y ago
I do not know what "victim mindset" is supposed to be. Victim is descriptor - something negative was done to you. You don't become victim by looking at things certain way. Nor you do stop being one. If you was robbed, you are robbery victim regardless of what your mindset is. Most of this is about denying that you might be victim of something either to yourself or to others. Plus, people actually really do deny that. If you read this article in full, majority of examples are about trying to figure out whether you don't misremember or misrepresent what happened.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  In many scenarios you do become a victim by looking at things a certain way. Suppose I get in a nasty fight with a close friend, where she yells at me and calls me all sorts of nasty names and shoves me a bit before running away. There are two different ways I could process that: * That conversation really spiraled out of control. We should get together, understand what went wrong, and make up. * I'm an abuse victim! She emotionally abused me and then lightly physically abused me. She'd better apologize for the trauma she put me through. The first attitude is especially important when I might be misremembering how things went or forgetting about what I was yelling back. But even if I'm 100% confident that my summary is fair and accurate, I don't think the second strategy is healthy, and I'd call the idea that I should embrace it "victim mindset".
  - watwut 6y ago
    The difference between the two options is not just subjective. There is real world difference between misunderstanding and abuse. The big issue with calling 2 unhealthy mindset is that if you are actually in 'toxic' situation, it prevents you to find solution. This is one of things that makes people stay in abusive relationships. It prevents you to set boundaries, leave or cut people that needs to be cut. "It is just passion spiraling out of control" is real world way how people rationalize staying in abusive relationships. And then everyone is like "why did you not left", well because he/she did not wanted to be victim with unhealthy mindset. And part of healing is to learn to recognize the situation for what it is and learning to leave. This is exactly one of my reasons why I object. Because even if you are dealing with narcissist or someone who has abusive habits, you will insist on fault being in the middle, making up, reconciling, enabling. Also, even in case of conversation spiraling out of control, it should not mean that I have to bend over to make up nor have to have boundaries pushed a bit again and and again each time it spirals. Sometimes, when conversations spiral out of control due to one person lacking self control, it is perfectly ok to NOT make up and decide that I don't have to deal with this.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      I just don't agree with the implied dichotomy here, between good people who always treat others well (although they might have misunderstandings) and narcissists with abusive habits. Most people fall in the middle, where they're a bit of a jerk in their own idiosyncratic situations. If you get in a habit of sorting all bad behavior between "misunderstanding" and "abuse", you'll inevitably end up calling a lot of normal behavior abuse and a lot of okay people abusers.
      - watwut 6y ago
        I can fully agree with that. But that does not make abusive situation matter of victims mindset, it is still matter of acts of the one who is doing it. And when non narcissist acts abusive or have such habits, the very same person acting differently with different people makes no difference. You still have to solve the abusive situation you are in, nit the mutual misunderstanding nor things "spiralling out of control of no one's fault".
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  There are situations where you're disempowered, taken advantage of, or abused. Some people inappropriately generalize those experiences, and instead of being (appropriately) aware of the possibility of mistreatment or risk, they expect such treatment or interpret all treatment through such a lens. There's no need to deny that you might be a victim. My ex-girlfriend cheated on me, and maybe my current one will too. But recognizing that possibility doesn't mean orienting my approach to the relationship around it, and in fact being clear about what boundaries/behaviors make me feel safe empowers me. Viewing myself as (fundamentally) a victim rather than someone who was a victim in a specific past circumstance does the opposite. The article might get it wrong in some ways, but the fundamental responsibility for one's self and one's emotional well-being is still an important point.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Responsibility for yourself should not mean that you will now be like "maybe cheating was my fault or maybe I remember it wrong". It was not. Responsibility for yourself also means that some things are not your doing. You and I are not Gods moving everyone else by our actions.
    - GavinMcG 6y ago
      Precisely. Which is why recognizing that other's actions aren't about you and don't have to disempower you is part of undoing the view of yourself as a perpetual victim and a view of others as having more power over you than they do.
      - watwut 6y ago
        Frankly, what you just wrote is just bullshit. The whole "perpetual victim" complain exist just to shut up people who tell uncomfortable things about what happened to them. Sometimes other people do have power over you, other times they dont. Pretending that other people cant affect you and cant harm you is just nonsense.
        6y ago

watwut 6y ago

I do not know what "victim mindset" is supposed to be. Victim is descriptor - something negative was done to you. You don't become victim by looking at things certain way. Nor you do stop being one. If you was robbed, you are robbery victim regardless of what your mindset is. Most of this is about denying that you might be victim of something either to yourself or to others. Plus, people actually really do deny that. If you read this article in full, majority of examples are about trying to figure out whether you don't misremember or misrepresent what happened.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
In many scenarios you do become a victim by looking at things a certain way. Suppose I get in a nasty fight with a close friend, where she yells at me and calls me all sorts of nasty names and shoves me a bit before running away. There are two different ways I could process that: * That conversation really spiraled out of control. We should get together, understand what went wrong, and make up. * I'm an abuse victim! She emotionally abused me and then lightly physically abused me. She'd better apologize for the trauma she put me through. The first attitude is especially important when I might be misremembering how things went or forgetting about what I was yelling back. But even if I'm 100% confident that my summary is fair and accurate, I don't think the second strategy is healthy, and I'd call the idea that I should embrace it "victim mindset".
- watwut 6y ago
  The difference between the two options is not just subjective. There is real world difference between misunderstanding and abuse. The big issue with calling 2 unhealthy mindset is that if you are actually in 'toxic' situation, it prevents you to find solution. This is one of things that makes people stay in abusive relationships. It prevents you to set boundaries, leave or cut people that needs to be cut. "It is just passion spiraling out of control" is real world way how people rationalize staying in abusive relationships. And then everyone is like "why did you not left", well because he/she did not wanted to be victim with unhealthy mindset. And part of healing is to learn to recognize the situation for what it is and learning to leave. This is exactly one of my reasons why I object. Because even if you are dealing with narcissist or someone who has abusive habits, you will insist on fault being in the middle, making up, reconciling, enabling. Also, even in case of conversation spiraling out of control, it should not mean that I have to bend over to make up nor have to have boundaries pushed a bit again and and again each time it spirals. Sometimes, when conversations spiral out of control due to one person lacking self control, it is perfectly ok to NOT make up and decide that I don't have to deal with this.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I just don't agree with the implied dichotomy here, between good people who always treat others well (although they might have misunderstandings) and narcissists with abusive habits. Most people fall in the middle, where they're a bit of a jerk in their own idiosyncratic situations. If you get in a habit of sorting all bad behavior between "misunderstanding" and "abuse", you'll inevitably end up calling a lot of normal behavior abuse and a lot of okay people abusers.
    - watwut 6y ago
      I can fully agree with that. But that does not make abusive situation matter of victims mindset, it is still matter of acts of the one who is doing it. And when non narcissist acts abusive or have such habits, the very same person acting differently with different people makes no difference. You still have to solve the abusive situation you are in, nit the mutual misunderstanding nor things "spiralling out of control of no one's fault".
GavinMcG 6y ago
There are situations where you're disempowered, taken advantage of, or abused. Some people inappropriately generalize those experiences, and instead of being (appropriately) aware of the possibility of mistreatment or risk, they expect such treatment or interpret all treatment through such a lens. There's no need to deny that you might be a victim. My ex-girlfriend cheated on me, and maybe my current one will too. But recognizing that possibility doesn't mean orienting my approach to the relationship around it, and in fact being clear about what boundaries/behaviors make me feel safe empowers me. Viewing myself as (fundamentally) a victim rather than someone who was a victim in a specific past circumstance does the opposite. The article might get it wrong in some ways, but the fundamental responsibility for one's self and one's emotional well-being is still an important point.
- watwut 6y ago
  Responsibility for yourself should not mean that you will now be like "maybe cheating was my fault or maybe I remember it wrong". It was not. Responsibility for yourself also means that some things are not your doing. You and I are not Gods moving everyone else by our actions.
  - GavinMcG 6y ago
    Precisely. Which is why recognizing that other's actions aren't about you and don't have to disempower you is part of undoing the view of yourself as a perpetual victim and a view of others as having more power over you than they do.
    - watwut 6y ago
      Frankly, what you just wrote is just bullshit. The whole "perpetual victim" complain exist just to shut up people who tell uncomfortable things about what happened to them. Sometimes other people do have power over you, other times they dont. Pretending that other people cant affect you and cant harm you is just nonsense.
      - 6y ago