6 ms·

I programmed for a refurbishing company for some time, where I learned about toner cartridge refill kits. Once you've bought an expensive copier for your compa

by Timpy 6y ago

I programmed for a refurbishing company for some time, where I learned about toner cartridge refill kits. Once you've bought an expensive copier for your company you're vendor locked into proprietary toner cartridges, and they charge outrageous prices. "Pirates" started selling bags of toner and syringes on eBay with instructional videos on how to refill the cartridge yourself. The toner company started putting small chips on the cartridge that would count the number of prints, and deactivate the cartridge after a certain amount. "Out of toner" was a lie, it was unauthorized printing. Reading this story is making me sick to my stomach.

Scoundreller 6y ago
At least somebody figured out how to make pirate chips for most of them. Dunno if that will always be the case for the future.
- Timpy 6y ago
  Yeah, the pirate chips are curing the symptom and not the disease though. I think Smart TVs are a really concerning symptom. If 1984 were about tyrannical corporations and not tyrannical governments, telescreens would be spot-on for Smart TVs.
  - baq 6y ago
    we don't have 1984, we have a brave new world.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      ...running at 451°Fahrenheit, and then the machine stops.
gspr 6y ago
It's high time for legislation banning this crap, or at the very least mandating an up-front warning à la "this product will stop functioning after n uses".
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Fixing existing legislation like copyright law so that it can't be abused to protect this behavior would be enough; the market will do the rest and there's going to be a whole (legalized) industry specializing in cracking and unlocking (effectively repairing) defective by design products.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    You don't want someone messing with emissions or doing other tweaks that make your nice used car into a money pit because it was abused. I'm not sure how you counter the above, but it really needs to be handled, otherwise too much power will fight against it. If you can find a good way to handle this I'm all for it.
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      Emissions laws are for emissions. Not copyright laws.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        They both get mushed together in this issue unless you are careful.
  - Natsu 6y ago
    In theory, this sort of thing may constitute copyright abuse, but I think you'd have to fight against each case separately which makes it pretty much intractable. It'd be much better to simply ban lockout chip type nonsense for 3rd party parts, though I suspect they'd still find ways to make compatibility difficult :/
- cwkoss 6y ago
  Unfortunately it seems we can't fix it with legislation until we fix our democracy. 88% of democratic voters support Medicare For All, but the DNC just voted against including it as part of their platform. The elected leaders in this country no longer serve their constituents, instead serving corporations. I think the vast majority of people in technology understand the DMCA is a horrible law - but at least it doesn't kill people. But if we can't get politicians to recognize the immorality our our current state of "cancer will bankrupt your family, even if you're insured and it also kills you", I don't know what hope we have on fixing copyright.
WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
My favorite one was the K-Cup machine. The first one allowed you use refillable K-cups so you could make coffee really fast using your own grounds. The second one had a DRM module that didn't allow you to put in 'Unathorized Coffee'. Regarding Unathorized Bread, I actually found the story of the cancer patients to be far more realistic and made me realize how people get radicalized easily. The story is something that should be read for yourself but I was on the edge of my seat through it.
- Timpy 6y ago
  I edited the word "radicalized" out of my original comment to make it more concise, but that's exactly how I feel. I had medical issue while I was in a foreign country that cost me $35 to see a doctor and get medicine. When I returned to America, in between jobs and in between health care providers, the same medicine cost me $500, and that's only because I was able to have a doctor-friend phone in the prescription so I didn't have to pay for a doctor's visit too. This was the same winter I learned about toner-pirates, and I found my contact lens prescription were held from me unless I paid for another eye exam. I'm tired of protecting myself from this predatory system.
  - spaetzleesser 6y ago
    I think radicalized is a good word. Some laws and rules just don’t deserve respect. I have no respect following IP laws that protect printer manufacturers to rip off customers with their overpriced supplies . A lot of US laws about importing pharmaceutical drugs don’t deserve respect . Neither do most of the drug laws in general.
    - bregma 6y ago
      Laws are principally about justice. The minute the law is warped to enhance personal gain, or twisted so it is about furthering a political agenda instead of about balancing the needs of all individuals, it becomes a perversion of justice. It brings both the law and the abstract concept of justice into disrepute. This will lead to anarchy and the caveman with the biggest club will be the alpha silverback again. If a law does not deserve respect, it must be struck down, else they will all be struck down.
rolph 6y ago
small pieces of nonconductive tape or other such coatings relieve many of these issues.

by Timpy 6y ago

Scoundreller 6y ago

At least somebody figured out how to make pirate chips for most of them. Dunno if that will always be the case for the future.

Timpy 6y ago
Yeah, the pirate chips are curing the symptom and not the disease though. I think Smart TVs are a really concerning symptom. If 1984 were about tyrannical corporations and not tyrannical governments, telescreens would be spot-on for Smart TVs.
- baq 6y ago
  we don't have 1984, we have a brave new world.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    ...running at 451°Fahrenheit, and then the machine stops.

gspr 6y ago

It's high time for legislation banning this crap, or at the very least mandating an up-front warning à la "this product will stop functioning after n uses".

Nextgrid 6y ago
Fixing existing legislation like copyright law so that it can't be abused to protect this behavior would be enough; the market will do the rest and there's going to be a whole (legalized) industry specializing in cracking and unlocking (effectively repairing) defective by design products.
- bluGill 6y ago
  You don't want someone messing with emissions or doing other tweaks that make your nice used car into a money pit because it was abused. I'm not sure how you counter the above, but it really needs to be handled, otherwise too much power will fight against it. If you can find a good way to handle this I'm all for it.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Emissions laws are for emissions. Not copyright laws.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      They both get mushed together in this issue unless you are careful.
- Natsu 6y ago
  In theory, this sort of thing may constitute copyright abuse, but I think you'd have to fight against each case separately which makes it pretty much intractable. It'd be much better to simply ban lockout chip type nonsense for 3rd party parts, though I suspect they'd still find ways to make compatibility difficult :/
cwkoss 6y ago
Unfortunately it seems we can't fix it with legislation until we fix our democracy. 88% of democratic voters support Medicare For All, but the DNC just voted against including it as part of their platform. The elected leaders in this country no longer serve their constituents, instead serving corporations. I think the vast majority of people in technology understand the DMCA is a horrible law - but at least it doesn't kill people. But if we can't get politicians to recognize the immorality our our current state of "cancer will bankrupt your family, even if you're insured and it also kills you", I don't know what hope we have on fixing copyright.

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago

My favorite one was the K-Cup machine. The first one allowed you use refillable K-cups so you could make coffee really fast using your own grounds. The second one had a DRM module that didn't allow you to put in 'Unathorized Coffee'. Regarding Unathorized Bread, I actually found the story of the cancer patients to be far more realistic and made me realize how people get radicalized easily. The story is something that should be read for yourself but I was on the edge of my seat through it.

Timpy 6y ago
I edited the word "radicalized" out of my original comment to make it more concise, but that's exactly how I feel. I had medical issue while I was in a foreign country that cost me $35 to see a doctor and get medicine. When I returned to America, in between jobs and in between health care providers, the same medicine cost me $500, and that's only because I was able to have a doctor-friend phone in the prescription so I didn't have to pay for a doctor's visit too. This was the same winter I learned about toner-pirates, and I found my contact lens prescription were held from me unless I paid for another eye exam. I'm tired of protecting myself from this predatory system.
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  I think radicalized is a good word. Some laws and rules just don’t deserve respect. I have no respect following IP laws that protect printer manufacturers to rip off customers with their overpriced supplies . A lot of US laws about importing pharmaceutical drugs don’t deserve respect . Neither do most of the drug laws in general.
  - bregma 6y ago
    Laws are principally about justice. The minute the law is warped to enhance personal gain, or twisted so it is about furthering a political agenda instead of about balancing the needs of all individuals, it becomes a perversion of justice. It brings both the law and the abstract concept of justice into disrepute. This will lead to anarchy and the caveman with the biggest club will be the alpha silverback again. If a law does not deserve respect, it must be struck down, else they will all be struck down.

rolph 6y ago

small pieces of nonconductive tape or other such coatings relieve many of these issues.