7 ms·

Stopping Pollution with Pine Needles

36 points by prostoalex 6y ago

neonate 6y ago
https://archive.is/t9qC2 https://archive.is/t9qC2
- hh3k0 6y ago
  Thanks!
- ngold 6y ago
  So the secret is making charcoal with pine needles at 550 degrees. Thank you.
JanSolo 6y ago
Interesting research, but utterly impractical. Are they proposing to harvest all the pine needles from all the forests in the Himalayas, convert them to charcoal and then use that to filter the Ganges? How much do they have to spend on this? It's a fun mental exercise, but it's so far from realistic that it's funny.
- 14 6y ago
  Canadian here. Some areas of the forest are thick and dense and would be hard but the pine trees are a little higher up and not as much ground cover. You could in some areas quite easily gather pine needles. It would likely have to be done by hand but I can promise you this. There are lots of people who struggle to get by with no opportunity around here. But every year we get several months where chanterelle mushrooms grow and people head off into the woods to gather them. The buyers always pay cash so the people do not have to claim this money which is critical as most already collect social assistance and any money is just deducted from their check. So if pine needles have a value I could have people collect it for me.
  - klyrs 6y ago
    And then you'll kill a thriving ecosystem that lives in those pine needles... including those chanterelles, matsutake and other (delicious or not) fungal species that live symbiotically with the trees. Not to mention the animals that live in the duff, and help prevent topsoil erosion. In the boreal forests of north america used to be plentiful with "wizard's beard" moss. Hangs down from the trees, light and fluffy, made really good material for diapers. So we harvested it. All of it. Turns out these beards takes forever to grow, and similar mosses and lichens that contribute to a healthy forest take a hundred, or hundreds, of years to get established in new growth. I've seen wizard's beard in a couple of extremely remote places. But the industry died when they almost extincted it. But yeah you're right. Loads of people will chomp at the bit to harvest this stuff. And you won't see chanterelles in the grocery story anymore. And after the topsoil is exposed in those woods, expect some intense fire seasons.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      If you had read the article, you would know that pine needles are a leading cause of intense fire seasons... Hence, harvesting pine needles could actually lessen the intensity of fire seasons, especially in drought-prone areas.
- antisthenes 6y ago
  You'd be surprised what is realistic when the labor is pine needle cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if you could pay some of the locals living there $5-10/day to collect pine needles, and have them end up better off than they are now.
  - BrandonMarc 6y ago
    Moreover, in western China the labor isn't cheap, it's free. (Uighur slavery)
- phyzome 6y ago
  Also, I'm pretty sure those pine needles are an important part of the ecosystem that has been inundated with them for thousands of years.
14 6y ago
I appreciate Pine trees even more now. I am in Canada and have access to many pine trees. One time I wanted to do a bit of soldering but could not find my flux. Small town had nothing anywhere near me so decided to see if I could make it. Quick DDG search shows rosin flux you can make from pine sap so I went to a tree, they all have gobs of sap dripping from some point, and collected some dirty sap. Took this home and soaked and stir it in pure isopropyl alcohol. Ran through a coffee filter and just let most of the alcohol air dry away. I love my flux it smells great works perfect and I know where that puff of smoke is coming from now. Felt rewarding as well 10/10 will keep doing this.
Theodores 6y ago
Pine needles are great for scrubbing pots and pans if camping. But we don't do that. It might be green and practical but it doesn't happen. The same with this story, great in principle but not going to happen. Pollution needs to stop at source and you need legislation and enforcement for that.
panzagl 6y ago
From what I remember when I lived in the South every 5 cu yards of pine straw comes with a free copperhead, I wonder what they get in the Himalayas...
- cglace 6y ago
  When you buy pine needles in bales? I’ve been spreading pine needles since I was 7 and not once have I encountered a snake in a bale of pine needles.
  - lgleason 6y ago
    I think that's a joke. Snakes do like to hide out in loose pine straw.
    - panzagl 6y ago
      Not in bales, more like when you know someone who knows someone who delivers it by the truckload. Usually they were babies.
lgleason 6y ago
In the southeast of the US longer pine needles from varieties of pines such as slash pine are used for garden mulch. Ironically, this was later in the season than I normally do this, I just laid down 52 bales of mulch in my garden. Here it is common for a few reasons. 1. It is in-expensive (about $3.75 a bale). 2. It provides insulation to the plant roots to keep the soil warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. 3. On steep inclines it tends to knit together to stay on the incline to prevent erosion. 4. As it breaks down it amends the soil with nutrients. The only negative is that you have to add new mulch every year because it mostly breaks down after a year. People who have pine tree farms use this as an extra revenue source. https://www.aces.edu/blog/topics/business-opportunities-forestry/harvesting-pine-straw-for-profit-questions-landowners-should-ask-themselves/ https://www.aces.edu/blog/topics/business-opportunities-fore... https://www.carolinacreations.biz/blog/mulch-and-pine-straw/ https://www.carolinacreations.biz/blog/mulch-and-pine-straw/
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Is it heavy enough to keep strong weeds like Himalayan blackberry down? I would think they can break through a layer of mulch made of this (as opposed to wood chips).
  - lgleason 6y ago
    If it is thick it will help.
  - bpodgursky 6y ago
    Nothing short of Agent Orange can keep the Himalayan blackberry down. My neighbors put down 3" of gravel on a new driveway. Comes right back up. If you've got a shovel, patience, and a decade of free weekends, you might make a dent... but probably not.
    - hinkley 6y ago
      No shovels. Mattock. You don’t want to cut the roots, you want to get them all. For bad infestations: broadfork.
el_don_almighty 6y ago
I can't imagine 6 tonnes of charred pine needles dumped in the Ganges effectively lasts more than a day for the purposes of heavy metal absorption. The math is beyond me, but it doesn't seem overly difficult. Especially when you consider that the needles don't show up all at once. They fall from the sky one at a time. After the first harvest, little Jimmy will be wandering through the once-lush, and now barren pine wasteland individually picking up pine needles with an eyebrow tweezer. It's interesting, but probably only "three legged dog" interesting.
- hinkley 6y ago
  You are also strip mining one biome to try to save another.
catchmeifyoucan 6y ago
Interesting article, but I don't see the original research linked. There isn't much content here to say the effectiveness of the pinecones on the water purification. I was also confused with the 550 degrees vs 35 degrees comparision. I'd be curious to see if pine cones can have an impact on desalination as well.

36 points by prostoalex 6y ago

neonate 6y ago

https://archive.is/t9qC2 https://archive.is/t9qC2

hh3k0 6y ago
Thanks!
ngold 6y ago
So the secret is making charcoal with pine needles at 550 degrees. Thank you.

JanSolo 6y ago

Interesting research, but utterly impractical. Are they proposing to harvest all the pine needles from all the forests in the Himalayas, convert them to charcoal and then use that to filter the Ganges? How much do they have to spend on this? It's a fun mental exercise, but it's so far from realistic that it's funny.

14 6y ago
Canadian here. Some areas of the forest are thick and dense and would be hard but the pine trees are a little higher up and not as much ground cover. You could in some areas quite easily gather pine needles. It would likely have to be done by hand but I can promise you this. There are lots of people who struggle to get by with no opportunity around here. But every year we get several months where chanterelle mushrooms grow and people head off into the woods to gather them. The buyers always pay cash so the people do not have to claim this money which is critical as most already collect social assistance and any money is just deducted from their check. So if pine needles have a value I could have people collect it for me.
- klyrs 6y ago
  And then you'll kill a thriving ecosystem that lives in those pine needles... including those chanterelles, matsutake and other (delicious or not) fungal species that live symbiotically with the trees. Not to mention the animals that live in the duff, and help prevent topsoil erosion. In the boreal forests of north america used to be plentiful with "wizard's beard" moss. Hangs down from the trees, light and fluffy, made really good material for diapers. So we harvested it. All of it. Turns out these beards takes forever to grow, and similar mosses and lichens that contribute to a healthy forest take a hundred, or hundreds, of years to get established in new growth. I've seen wizard's beard in a couple of extremely remote places. But the industry died when they almost extincted it. But yeah you're right. Loads of people will chomp at the bit to harvest this stuff. And you won't see chanterelles in the grocery story anymore. And after the topsoil is exposed in those woods, expect some intense fire seasons.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    If you had read the article, you would know that pine needles are a leading cause of intense fire seasons... Hence, harvesting pine needles could actually lessen the intensity of fire seasons, especially in drought-prone areas.
antisthenes 6y ago
You'd be surprised what is realistic when the labor is pine needle cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if you could pay some of the locals living there $5-10/day to collect pine needles, and have them end up better off than they are now.
- BrandonMarc 6y ago
  Moreover, in western China the labor isn't cheap, it's free. (Uighur slavery)
phyzome 6y ago
Also, I'm pretty sure those pine needles are an important part of the ecosystem that has been inundated with them for thousands of years.

14 6y ago

I appreciate Pine trees even more now. I am in Canada and have access to many pine trees. One time I wanted to do a bit of soldering but could not find my flux. Small town had nothing anywhere near me so decided to see if I could make it. Quick DDG search shows rosin flux you can make from pine sap so I went to a tree, they all have gobs of sap dripping from some point, and collected some dirty sap. Took this home and soaked and stir it in pure isopropyl alcohol. Ran through a coffee filter and just let most of the alcohol air dry away. I love my flux it smells great works perfect and I know where that puff of smoke is coming from now. Felt rewarding as well 10/10 will keep doing this.

Theodores 6y ago

Pine needles are great for scrubbing pots and pans if camping. But we don't do that. It might be green and practical but it doesn't happen. The same with this story, great in principle but not going to happen. Pollution needs to stop at source and you need legislation and enforcement for that.

panzagl 6y ago

From what I remember when I lived in the South every 5 cu yards of pine straw comes with a free copperhead, I wonder what they get in the Himalayas...

cglace 6y ago
When you buy pine needles in bales? I’ve been spreading pine needles since I was 7 and not once have I encountered a snake in a bale of pine needles.
- lgleason 6y ago
  I think that's a joke. Snakes do like to hide out in loose pine straw.
  - panzagl 6y ago
    Not in bales, more like when you know someone who knows someone who delivers it by the truckload. Usually they were babies.

lgleason 6y ago

In the southeast of the US longer pine needles from varieties of pines such as slash pine are used for garden mulch. Ironically, this was later in the season than I normally do this, I just laid down 52 bales of mulch in my garden. Here it is common for a few reasons. 1. It is in-expensive (about $3.75 a bale). 2. It provides insulation to the plant roots to keep the soil warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. 3. On steep inclines it tends to knit together to stay on the incline to prevent erosion. 4. As it breaks down it amends the soil with nutrients. The only negative is that you have to add new mulch every year because it mostly breaks down after a year. People who have pine tree farms use this as an extra revenue source. https://www.aces.edu/blog/topics/business-opportunities-forestry/harvesting-pine-straw-for-profit-questions-landowners-should-ask-themselves/ https://www.aces.edu/blog/topics/business-opportunities-fore... https://www.carolinacreations.biz/blog/mulch-and-pine-straw/ https://www.carolinacreations.biz/blog/mulch-and-pine-straw/

throwawaysea 6y ago
Is it heavy enough to keep strong weeds like Himalayan blackberry down? I would think they can break through a layer of mulch made of this (as opposed to wood chips).
- lgleason 6y ago
  If it is thick it will help.
- bpodgursky 6y ago
  Nothing short of Agent Orange can keep the Himalayan blackberry down. My neighbors put down 3" of gravel on a new driveway. Comes right back up. If you've got a shovel, patience, and a decade of free weekends, you might make a dent... but probably not.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    No shovels. Mattock. You don’t want to cut the roots, you want to get them all. For bad infestations: broadfork.

el_don_almighty 6y ago

I can't imagine 6 tonnes of charred pine needles dumped in the Ganges effectively lasts more than a day for the purposes of heavy metal absorption. The math is beyond me, but it doesn't seem overly difficult. Especially when you consider that the needles don't show up all at once. They fall from the sky one at a time. After the first harvest, little Jimmy will be wandering through the once-lush, and now barren pine wasteland individually picking up pine needles with an eyebrow tweezer. It's interesting, but probably only "three legged dog" interesting.

hinkley 6y ago
You are also strip mining one biome to try to save another.

catchmeifyoucan 6y ago

Interesting article, but I don't see the original research linked. There isn't much content here to say the effectiveness of the pinecones on the water purification. I was also confused with the 550 degrees vs 35 degrees comparision. I'd be curious to see if pine cones can have an impact on desalination as well.