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> Americans used to have one of the most prized passports in the world, considered a golden ticket to wealth, travel and opportunity. What? This is not at all

> Americans used to have one of the most prized passports in the world, considered a golden ticket to wealth, travel and opportunity. What? This is not at all true. Maybe that's a belief that many Americans have, but the US passport is not one of the most prized passports in the world, there are about 30 other country's passport I'd rather have before having a US one, if you're talking about getting access to other countries with/without requiring a visa. A quick check of any of the "passport indexes" (Henley Passport Index, Arton Capital Passport Index) will show you that the US passport is fairly low ranked compared to the top ones. Hard to take the rest of the article serious when it starts out with a serious flaw in the reasoning.

Pfhreak 6y ago
Used to. Like 30-40 years ago.
- capableweb 6y ago
  No, the article is mentioning that the "downfall" is because of "the onset of COVID-19", mentioned later in the article. Although 30-40 years ago is probably closer to when the US passport lost its power in reality.
  - irrational 6y ago
    I would put it at pre-Korean war. So, about 70 years ago.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
learc83 6y ago
>but the US passport is not one of the most prized passports in the world Henley Passport Index ranks the US at #7, by a reasonable definition of "one of the most prized", I'd say #7 counts. #1 Japan only has access to 6 more countries visa free than the US does. Edit: The US was ranked #1 in 2006, went down to #7 by 2010, and then was back up to #1 in 2014. We're talking swinging between 185 countries with visa free access and 191 countries here, so the top 10 positions change frequently.
- gruez 6y ago
  To add to this, most of the additional countries aren't really umm... worth traveling to, at least for most people. I compared against germany, and the additional countries are: Myanmar Pakistan Vietnam Venezuela Iran Turkey I'm sure those countries have interesting places to go to and the people there are nice, but they're not exactly on the top of most tourists' list when it comes to destinations. edit: not sure what the downvotes are about. maybe hn thinks that all countries are equal, and thinking otherwise is racist?
  - Cenk 6y ago
    According to this list, Turkey ranks 6th in tourist destinations worldwide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#Most_visited_destinations_by_international_tourist_arrivals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#Most_vi...
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      I think the operative metric is how it would rank for US passport holders in a world where the us passport was entirely unrestricted. I.e. how much is the typical US passport holder losing out compared to their ideal preferences. I think the parent's point is accurate by that metric. I doubt that many Americans urgently desire to travel there compared to most other places. I would actually quibble more with Vietnam -- it seems like a fantastic tourist destination, similar in many respects to Thailand.
      - Cenk 6y ago
        gruez said the countries on the list are “not worth travelling to“ and “not exactly on the top of most tourists’ list”, but if Turkey is the 6th most popular tourist destination in the world that’s obviously not true
        asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        I agree that person's way of expressing their opinion was inelegant. But I'm trying to cut through to something true that they might have meant by what they said.
juskrey 6y ago
You have not seen the difference in how bureaucratic problems are solved with US passport and any other.
- capableweb 6y ago
  Hey there internet stranger, rather than assuming how other strangers life are, why don't you ask? I do know how bureaucratic issues are handled (with my own experience) by using three different passport at different times of my life, one of them being with a US passport. Is there anything in particular you're thinking about that I can help share my experience regarding?
  - juskrey 6y ago
    You are welcome to go forward and share any relevant experience
mcrae 6y ago
I'm not American but you're off-base here. Sure, if you already have another western passport an American passport may not buy you much. But if you go to Asia or Africa, you'll find that an American passport is still the Holy Grail; certainly "one of the most prized" as the article says. And, BTW, if you're poor (like most of the world!), the mobility offered by a passport matters little in the short term; it's the economic mobility a new nationality gives you. Besides, those passport indexes are ridiculous -- they rank them by number of countries you can access. But let's be real -- would you prefer an Emerati passport to an American one because you get a visa-on-arrival in Liberia or similar places? Insane.
- klyrs 6y ago
  Africa and Asia are not countries. As I understand it, American tourists in Egypt are treated like shit, but Italians are welcomed with open arms. Source: a friend who holds both passports (born in US to Italian citizens) whose family vacations in Egypt.
- fastball 6y ago
  Also, the US is one of the few countries where long-term minded people can move, have a kid, and then their kid will have a US passport. That is not true for most of the world, and is certainly not true for other "prized passports".
cscurmudgeon 6y ago
Isn't the US the country that has the most immigrants per year? https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/wmr_2020.pdf https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/wmr_2020.pdf "The most striking feature of the main migration corridors within and from the region (figure 22 is the dominance of the United States as the main country of destination. Most of the corridors in 2019 were to the United States," Most immigrants don't know or care about things like Henley Passport Index. Access to all countries are weighted equally in these passport indexes. So I would say they are flawed. I would prefer a passport that gives me access to say Switzerland rather than North Korea (but they will count same in all the passport indices). These indices are vanity numbers (just like number of lines of code or number of papers published for an academic)
Cenk 6y ago
Also – doesn’t the US passport mean you have to pay (or at least declare) taxes on your non-US income back to the IRS? That doesn’t seem desirable. An EU passport would vastly outrank the US passport in terms of economic opportunity because it gives you the right to live and work anywhere in the EU without a visa or much paperwork.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Only after the first $100,000. I don't see a big problem with this either. > An EU passport would vastly outrank the US passport in terms of economic opportunity Extremely debatable, even more so with using the term "vastly".
  - greatpatton 6y ago
    Come to live in Switzerland and then you will understand why the US embassy here has the highest US citizenship renunciation in the world...
    - fermienrico 6y ago
      Switzerland isn't part of the EU.
    - greatpatton 6y ago
      yes but Switzerland has freedom of movement with EU, meaning that EU passport holder can freely settle in CH or Swiss passport holder in EU...
    - learc83 6y ago
      I'm not sure what that metric is supposed to prove? That Switzerland has a higher number of rich US expats who want to avoid paying US taxes than other countries do? It's very difficult to get Swiss citizenship in the first place, so it makes sense that it's mostly well off US citizens who are able to get Swiss citizenship, and are thus able to renounce their US citizenship.
    - greatpatton 6y ago
irrational 6y ago
> Americans used to have > the US passport is not You and the comment you are replying to seem to be discussing two different time periods, perhaps separated by a century or more.
Teknoman117 6y ago
I'd hardly call visa-free access to 6 fewer countries (185 vs 191) as "fairly low ranking". I actually went through the list to see what the differences were in terms of access between Japan (the top ranking passport right now) and the US passport. These are ignoring any COVID related temporary closures. A Japanese passport will get you into the following countries visa-free that the US passport won't: - China - India - Myanmar - Pakistan - Vietnam - Suriname - Venezuela - Azerbaijan - Iran - Turkey A US passport will get you into the following countries visa-free that the Japanese passport won't: - Burkina Faso - Central African Republic To be honest, nearly all of the above make sense - US-China relations are bad - The US middle-eastern wars have pissed off: - Pakistan - Azerbaijan - Iran - Turkey - The US currently has sanctions against Venezuela I am a little surprised about India, Myanmar, Suriname, and Vietnam. However, it doesn't appear that European passports will get you into India visa-free either.
- ghaff 6y ago
  >US-China relations are bad That's true although going back over 10 years (and I'm sure before) at least getting a Chinese business visa has been a bit of a pain--not really difficult but a bunch of paperwork. On the plus side, as of a few years ago, you could get a 10-year visa. And India was just a bureaucratic mess. I ended up canceling two different business trips to India because I couldn't get a visa in the necessary window. My understanding is that in normal now there's visa on arrival.

Pfhreak 6y ago

Used to. Like 30-40 years ago.

capableweb 6y ago
No, the article is mentioning that the "downfall" is because of "the onset of COVID-19", mentioned later in the article. Although 30-40 years ago is probably closer to when the US passport lost its power in reality.
- irrational 6y ago
  I would put it at pre-Korean war. So, about 70 years ago.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

learc83 6y ago

>but the US passport is not one of the most prized passports in the world Henley Passport Index ranks the US at #7, by a reasonable definition of "one of the most prized", I'd say #7 counts. #1 Japan only has access to 6 more countries visa free than the US does. Edit: The US was ranked #1 in 2006, went down to #7 by 2010, and then was back up to #1 in 2014. We're talking swinging between 185 countries with visa free access and 191 countries here, so the top 10 positions change frequently.

gruez 6y ago
To add to this, most of the additional countries aren't really umm... worth traveling to, at least for most people. I compared against germany, and the additional countries are: Myanmar Pakistan Vietnam Venezuela Iran Turkey I'm sure those countries have interesting places to go to and the people there are nice, but they're not exactly on the top of most tourists' list when it comes to destinations. edit: not sure what the downvotes are about. maybe hn thinks that all countries are equal, and thinking otherwise is racist?
- Cenk 6y ago
  According to this list, Turkey ranks 6th in tourist destinations worldwide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#Most_visited_destinations_by_international_tourist_arrivals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#Most_vi...
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    I think the operative metric is how it would rank for US passport holders in a world where the us passport was entirely unrestricted. I.e. how much is the typical US passport holder losing out compared to their ideal preferences. I think the parent's point is accurate by that metric. I doubt that many Americans urgently desire to travel there compared to most other places. I would actually quibble more with Vietnam -- it seems like a fantastic tourist destination, similar in many respects to Thailand.
    - Cenk 6y ago
      gruez said the countries on the list are “not worth travelling to“ and “not exactly on the top of most tourists’ list”, but if Turkey is the 6th most popular tourist destination in the world that’s obviously not true
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        I agree that person's way of expressing their opinion was inelegant. But I'm trying to cut through to something true that they might have meant by what they said.

juskrey 6y ago

You have not seen the difference in how bureaucratic problems are solved with US passport and any other.

capableweb 6y ago
Hey there internet stranger, rather than assuming how other strangers life are, why don't you ask? I do know how bureaucratic issues are handled (with my own experience) by using three different passport at different times of my life, one of them being with a US passport. Is there anything in particular you're thinking about that I can help share my experience regarding?
- juskrey 6y ago
  You are welcome to go forward and share any relevant experience

mcrae 6y ago

I'm not American but you're off-base here. Sure, if you already have another western passport an American passport may not buy you much. But if you go to Asia or Africa, you'll find that an American passport is still the Holy Grail; certainly "one of the most prized" as the article says. And, BTW, if you're poor (like most of the world!), the mobility offered by a passport matters little in the short term; it's the economic mobility a new nationality gives you. Besides, those passport indexes are ridiculous -- they rank them by number of countries you can access. But let's be real -- would you prefer an Emerati passport to an American one because you get a visa-on-arrival in Liberia or similar places? Insane.

klyrs 6y ago
Africa and Asia are not countries. As I understand it, American tourists in Egypt are treated like shit, but Italians are welcomed with open arms. Source: a friend who holds both passports (born in US to Italian citizens) whose family vacations in Egypt.
fastball 6y ago
Also, the US is one of the few countries where long-term minded people can move, have a kid, and then their kid will have a US passport. That is not true for most of the world, and is certainly not true for other "prized passports".

cscurmudgeon 6y ago

Isn't the US the country that has the most immigrants per year? https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/wmr_2020.pdf https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/wmr_2020.pdf "The most striking feature of the main migration corridors within and from the region (figure 22 is the dominance of the United States as the main country of destination. Most of the corridors in 2019 were to the United States," Most immigrants don't know or care about things like Henley Passport Index. Access to all countries are weighted equally in these passport indexes. So I would say they are flawed. I would prefer a passport that gives me access to say Switzerland rather than North Korea (but they will count same in all the passport indices). These indices are vanity numbers (just like number of lines of code or number of papers published for an academic)

Cenk 6y ago

Also – doesn’t the US passport mean you have to pay (or at least declare) taxes on your non-US income back to the IRS? That doesn’t seem desirable. An EU passport would vastly outrank the US passport in terms of economic opportunity because it gives you the right to live and work anywhere in the EU without a visa or much paperwork.

ericmay 6y ago
Only after the first $100,000. I don't see a big problem with this either. > An EU passport would vastly outrank the US passport in terms of economic opportunity Extremely debatable, even more so with using the term "vastly".
- greatpatton 6y ago
  Come to live in Switzerland and then you will understand why the US embassy here has the highest US citizenship renunciation in the world...
  - fermienrico 6y ago
    Switzerland isn't part of the EU.
  - greatpatton 6y ago
    yes but Switzerland has freedom of movement with EU, meaning that EU passport holder can freely settle in CH or Swiss passport holder in EU...
  - learc83 6y ago
    I'm not sure what that metric is supposed to prove? That Switzerland has a higher number of rich US expats who want to avoid paying US taxes than other countries do? It's very difficult to get Swiss citizenship in the first place, so it makes sense that it's mostly well off US citizens who are able to get Swiss citizenship, and are thus able to renounce their US citizenship.
  - greatpatton 6y ago

irrational 6y ago

> Americans used to have > the US passport is not You and the comment you are replying to seem to be discussing two different time periods, perhaps separated by a century or more.

Teknoman117 6y ago

I'd hardly call visa-free access to 6 fewer countries (185 vs 191) as "fairly low ranking". I actually went through the list to see what the differences were in terms of access between Japan (the top ranking passport right now) and the US passport. These are ignoring any COVID related temporary closures. A Japanese passport will get you into the following countries visa-free that the US passport won't: - China - India - Myanmar - Pakistan - Vietnam - Suriname - Venezuela - Azerbaijan - Iran - Turkey A US passport will get you into the following countries visa-free that the Japanese passport won't: - Burkina Faso - Central African Republic To be honest, nearly all of the above make sense - US-China relations are bad - The US middle-eastern wars have pissed off: - Pakistan - Azerbaijan - Iran - Turkey - The US currently has sanctions against Venezuela I am a little surprised about India, Myanmar, Suriname, and Vietnam. However, it doesn't appear that European passports will get you into India visa-free either.

ghaff 6y ago
>US-China relations are bad That's true although going back over 10 years (and I'm sure before) at least getting a Chinese business visa has been a bit of a pain--not really difficult but a bunch of paperwork. On the plus side, as of a few years ago, you could get a 10-year visa. And India was just a bureaucratic mess. I ended up canceling two different business trips to India because I couldn't get a visa in the necessary window. My understanding is that in normal now there's visa on arrival.