6 ms·

Technologies with similar capabilities are being rolled out en masse throughout retailers across America. I've worked with a regional grocer supporting one of

by luma 6y ago

Technologies with similar capabilities are being rolled out en masse throughout retailers across America. I've worked with a regional grocer supporting one of these projects. There are turnkey systems from several vendors, but the general concept is similar. Cameras have full coverage of the retail floorspace from multiple angles. The systems can track an individual throughout the store, and they can observe someone pulling items off the shelf. This is used for a couple things. One, if customer pulls product A off the shelf instead of product B right next to it, the manufacturer of product B can purchase the ability to have their coupon print out at checkout to be handed to somebody who is proven to have an interest in the category. Alternately, it can be used with self-checkout systems to confirm that the shopper actually scanned product A, or to alert security to check the shopper's receipt and cart at exit. Amazon is offering this sort of technology for checkout-less stores, but similar offerings for loss-prevention and targeted marketing are online and available. It would be trivial to add face recognition to this stack, and I strongly suspect it is in fact offered if you ask for it. The use case there would be focused around the loss prevention aspect, and that's a huge financial driver for implementing these systems. Another interesting feature of this market is that the websites for the products themselves don't really advertise the full functionality of the product. You won't see the scale of the offering until you get to the in-person sales demo and slide decks. It feels like the vendors know how the technology could be perceived.

michaelt 6y ago
> One, if customer pulls product A off the shelf instead of product B right next to it, the manufacturer of product B can purchase the ability to have their coupon print out at checkout to be handed to somebody who is proven to have an interest in the category. What does that add over simply printing a Product B coupon whenever someone purchases Product A?
- gruez 6y ago
  Snarky explanation: same reason why you need blockchain in a private, single writer database Charitable explanation: maybe it covers additional use cases such as you stopping to look at a product, but end up not buying it.
- syshum 6y ago
  They can claim "Advanced Targeted Marketing using machine vision and AI" and charge 10x more for the product
  - luma 6y ago
    It appears that you've been downvoted but I believe you are 100% correct. I lost count of how many times "AI" was mentioned in the one pitch I was in the room for.
- luma 6y ago
  Good question and I glossed over that interaction so much that I left out the important differentiator - it can _also_ detect that a product was pulled from the shelf and then put back. That is a much stronger signal of intent, and as a result, that signal can have a price put on it which is higher than just blindly handing out coupons.
  - texasbigdata 6y ago
    Accurately? That’s pretty intense. In college I needed some cash and went to a “study”. For $75 bucks you went to a mocked up grocery store and spent 45 minutes strapped up in a chair where they showed you combination after combination of (one vendors) bottle colors and arrangement on the shelf and tracked your eyes on how quickly you gravitated towards them. Always seemed super intense what retailers do.
    - luma 6y ago
      "accurately" is debatable: https://www.wired.com/story/walmart-shoplifting-artificial-intelligence-everseen/ https://www.wired.com/story/walmart-shoplifting-artificial-i... It certainly won't stop them from selling on that feature. You are right about the lengths product marketing companies will go to. There is a lot of money on the table and the grocery business is all-in on this stuff.
- jen20 6y ago
  This assumes they will buy multiple of product A? This is largely true for the type of thing Rite Aid sell I'd guess, but perhaps not for higher value items which are less frequently purchased and have higher margins.
JshWright 6y ago
Why would you need facial recognition to print a coupon? If the system knows that product A is next to product B, then it can just print B's coupon whenever A is scanned at checkout.
- jcims 6y ago
  You don’t > It would be trivial to add face recognition to this stack, and I strongly suspect it is in fact offered if you ask for it.
- luma 6y ago
  You don't. The system needs to be able to track an individual throughout the store, and can do so via several measures. If you're just tracking a person as a persistent-yet-moving object, there isn't much of a privacy concern. However, if one elects to pile on technologies like facial or gait recognition, then one can track consumer behavior across multiple visits. It's another datapoint which carries it's own value from a marketing perspective. It just-so-happens to also have value to those charged with loss prevention. If a shoplifter is caught, they can be informed that they are no longer welcome to shop in this store. Enforcing that can be difficult unless....
wasdfff 6y ago
This sort of thing is a little perverse imo. I don’t think anyone should be punished for stealing food, that’s a crime of hopeless poverty. My roomates were broke in college, spending nearly all money on rent and school. If someone wanted meat that week, they would ring up the chuck as bananas at self checkout. Otherwise it was rice and beans.
- DangitBobby 6y ago
  It sounds more like they made the choice to take out less in loans than they needed than hopeless poverty. I would love for what I'm paying back not to include my food from college, but it does.
- luma 6y ago
  "hopeless poverty" != "attending college". If you chose higher education (at some considerable expense if you're in the states) over basic necessities like food, that was your decision. I don't see how it justifies theft.
- Kalium 6y ago
  OK. What, in your mind, should grocery stores do about shrinkage? Bear in mind that grocery is a notoriously low-margin business, and stores can and will be shut down if shrinkage at a location is too high. Perhaps also consider that there are different ethical questions around stealing luxuries than around necessities: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-ethical-fourier-transform https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-ethical-fourier-transf...
- jaywalk 6y ago
  >I don’t think anyone should be punished for stealing food, that’s a crime of hopeless poverty. Oh please, spare us this nonsense. If they are so broke, they can get on food stamps. Allowing theft is not the answer.
  - diag 6y ago
    Cool, how accessible is that for every person needing food in every instance? Theft in this case is victimless.
bsenftner 6y ago
Adding to the above, the general goal is to create a physical "heat map" similar to what is used in web eCommerce sites. Fact of the matter, retail is split between a dual role of providing physical locations as well as web locations where they sell their products and services. Because it is easier to base decisions on similar evaluations, the convenience of eCommerce "heat maps" is driving companies to try to create the same for their physical locations. Then all the methods used for surveillance capitalism used online can be applied to their physical retail operations.

by luma 6y ago

michaelt 6y ago

> One, if customer pulls product A off the shelf instead of product B right next to it, the manufacturer of product B can purchase the ability to have their coupon print out at checkout to be handed to somebody who is proven to have an interest in the category. What does that add over simply printing a Product B coupon whenever someone purchases Product A?

gruez 6y ago
Snarky explanation: same reason why you need blockchain in a private, single writer database Charitable explanation: maybe it covers additional use cases such as you stopping to look at a product, but end up not buying it.
syshum 6y ago
They can claim "Advanced Targeted Marketing using machine vision and AI" and charge 10x more for the product
- luma 6y ago
  It appears that you've been downvoted but I believe you are 100% correct. I lost count of how many times "AI" was mentioned in the one pitch I was in the room for.
luma 6y ago
Good question and I glossed over that interaction so much that I left out the important differentiator - it can _also_ detect that a product was pulled from the shelf and then put back. That is a much stronger signal of intent, and as a result, that signal can have a price put on it which is higher than just blindly handing out coupons.
- texasbigdata 6y ago
  Accurately? That’s pretty intense. In college I needed some cash and went to a “study”. For $75 bucks you went to a mocked up grocery store and spent 45 minutes strapped up in a chair where they showed you combination after combination of (one vendors) bottle colors and arrangement on the shelf and tracked your eyes on how quickly you gravitated towards them. Always seemed super intense what retailers do.
  - luma 6y ago
    "accurately" is debatable: https://www.wired.com/story/walmart-shoplifting-artificial-intelligence-everseen/ https://www.wired.com/story/walmart-shoplifting-artificial-i... It certainly won't stop them from selling on that feature. You are right about the lengths product marketing companies will go to. There is a lot of money on the table and the grocery business is all-in on this stuff.
jen20 6y ago
This assumes they will buy multiple of product A? This is largely true for the type of thing Rite Aid sell I'd guess, but perhaps not for higher value items which are less frequently purchased and have higher margins.

JshWright 6y ago

Why would you need facial recognition to print a coupon? If the system knows that product A is next to product B, then it can just print B's coupon whenever A is scanned at checkout.

jcims 6y ago
You don’t > It would be trivial to add face recognition to this stack, and I strongly suspect it is in fact offered if you ask for it.
luma 6y ago
You don't. The system needs to be able to track an individual throughout the store, and can do so via several measures. If you're just tracking a person as a persistent-yet-moving object, there isn't much of a privacy concern. However, if one elects to pile on technologies like facial or gait recognition, then one can track consumer behavior across multiple visits. It's another datapoint which carries it's own value from a marketing perspective. It just-so-happens to also have value to those charged with loss prevention. If a shoplifter is caught, they can be informed that they are no longer welcome to shop in this store. Enforcing that can be difficult unless....

wasdfff 6y ago

This sort of thing is a little perverse imo. I don’t think anyone should be punished for stealing food, that’s a crime of hopeless poverty. My roomates were broke in college, spending nearly all money on rent and school. If someone wanted meat that week, they would ring up the chuck as bananas at self checkout. Otherwise it was rice and beans.

DangitBobby 6y ago
It sounds more like they made the choice to take out less in loans than they needed than hopeless poverty. I would love for what I'm paying back not to include my food from college, but it does.
luma 6y ago
"hopeless poverty" != "attending college". If you chose higher education (at some considerable expense if you're in the states) over basic necessities like food, that was your decision. I don't see how it justifies theft.
Kalium 6y ago
OK. What, in your mind, should grocery stores do about shrinkage? Bear in mind that grocery is a notoriously low-margin business, and stores can and will be shut down if shrinkage at a location is too high. Perhaps also consider that there are different ethical questions around stealing luxuries than around necessities: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-ethical-fourier-transform https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-ethical-fourier-transf...
jaywalk 6y ago
>I don’t think anyone should be punished for stealing food, that’s a crime of hopeless poverty. Oh please, spare us this nonsense. If they are so broke, they can get on food stamps. Allowing theft is not the answer.
- diag 6y ago
  Cool, how accessible is that for every person needing food in every instance? Theft in this case is victimless.

bsenftner 6y ago

Adding to the above, the general goal is to create a physical "heat map" similar to what is used in web eCommerce sites. Fact of the matter, retail is split between a dual role of providing physical locations as well as web locations where they sell their products and services. Because it is easier to base decisions on similar evaluations, the convenience of eCommerce "heat maps" is driving companies to try to create the same for their physical locations. Then all the methods used for surveillance capitalism used online can be applied to their physical retail operations.