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As an European working with lots of American contractors in the tech field, I'm always impressed by their work ethics. The put in 10-12 hours, 6 days a week. B

As an European working with lots of American contractors in the tech field, I'm always impressed by their work ethics. The put in 10-12 hours, 6 days a week. But from talking with them, it seems like their focus is on retirement - hopefully in their 50's. That's their grand plan, because that's when they'll start "living". It's a bit of a contrast to us Scandinavians - as we really like to live in the present. No pie in the sky dreams. Which is also why we guard our working rights and work-life balance like a national treasure.

marcodave 6y ago
which then begs the question: if you spent your whole life working more, and focusing on getting more money, assuming that you can retire in your 50s, can you REALLY stop working? or will you depress yourself because there's nothing else to do? retiring early seems great on paper, but at what cost?
- TrackerFF 6y ago
  Yes, it depends on work and what type you are. I've talked with lots of older colleagues that dread retirement, mostly because they enjoy work and they also enjoy the people they work with. Some people will do just fine with their hobbies and projects, others will have a hard time adapting - many even coming out of retirement, due to boredom. Really depends on the individual. One thing I've heard a lot, from older colleagues, is that people tend to become mentally dull once they go into retirement - at least on the skills they used daily at work. You need to be pretty disciplined and motivated to maintain your skills at a professional level, once there's no hurry or pressure to deliver anything. Days turn into weeks, weeks into months, months into years - before you know it, you've spent a couple of years of your retirement just chilling around.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  also, can you really stop working in your 50s when the health problems come and you realize you now need your employer for the health insurance?
  - mgkimsal 6y ago
    or you can buy it yourself. budget for it like any other expense. it's not necessarily cheap, but it's not something so astronomical that no one can afford it at all. Many people somehow find $700/month for their favorite SUV, but $700/month for health insurance is unattainable. I'm not saying the system is great - I'm in favor of single-payer system overall. But tying access to health insurance to employment as a default mindset really has to be stopped, somehow.
    - electricviolet 6y ago
      Most of the people for whom $700/month for health insurance is unattainable are not spending $700/month on car payments. There's bound to be some overlap, sure, but let's keep the focus on the fact that expecting everyone to pay $700/month in order to not go bankrupt from health expenses is insane.
      - missedthecue 6y ago
        Isn't the average monthly payment in germany over $800?
        ratww 6y ago
        National average is around 3800. Minimum is 1584, I think.
        Xylakant 6y ago
        The maximum monthly payment you can have for german public health insurance is 14.6% of 4.687,50 EUR per month in 2020 - that's about 800USD. Mind you, maximum, not average. 14.6% of your wage is the health insurance deductible, 4.687,50 EUR is the so-called "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze", that is the cap from which on your wage is free - it's regularly adjusted (upwards usually). You can reach that maximum if you are self employed and voluntarily member of the public health insurance - meaning you have to pay both the employers and the employees share. If you're employed, your employer pays about half of it. Your chosen health insurance can optionally add an extra fee, usually less than a percent or two, most are free.
- elindbe2 6y ago
  That seems overly dramatic. Yes, you can retire in your 50s (or 30s-40s with a good paying job) and stop working. There is always plenty to do in this great wide world that we live in if you have even a modicum of imagination.
  - bronco21016 6y ago
    Yet going on the FIRE or fatFIRE (financial independence, retire early) forums you encounter countless examples of people who achieve early retirement and lose their minds. They’re bored because they worked so hard and no longer know what to do with themselves. They didn’t spend any time developing other interests or hobbies because they were engrossed in chasing the paycheck. Some are so engrossed in chasing the money that they don’t even stop to consider what they MIGHT do if they retire early.
    - r-s 6y ago
      I rarely seem to see that on the FIRE forums. It seems like 99% of people on those forums are trying to achieve FIRE, and very little discussion about those who have.
    - sacred_numbers 6y ago
      I think that might be confirmation bias. The people who happily retire and have the freedom to do whatever they want are less likely to talk about it on a forum; they'll just go live their lives. Conversely, if a person banks all of their happiness on retiring early and then is unhappy they are more likely to talk about it on a forum. It's a similar phenomenon to the prevalence of negative reviews outweighing positive reviews.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      Here's an option: keep working, but without any of the stress associated with needing to work. This isn't rocket science, workaholics.
    - elindbe2 6y ago
      Having spent much time there I've encountered plenty of people who haven't been bored in retirement. That's the beauty of being FI anyways, if you want to work then work. If you don't want to work then don't work. Simple as that.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
thomasdullien 6y ago
There are also cultural factors about how you present your work. GC Rota wrote about the mathematics culture in the 50's that European and US researchers worked similar amounts, but the Europeans took great care to present an image of working less than they actually did, and the US researchers often presented an image of working more than they did. My experiences of working both in the US and in Europe (Germany and Switzerland) was that the number of hours worked in the US was higher, but the intensity of work was lower: There was more office chitchat, more goofing around, more "watercooler/coffee talk", and so forth. There is also an extreme culture of "presenteeism" in the US that starts in highschool (where being physically present is much more important than being attentive in any form).
- workingname 6y ago
  > "presenteeism" in the US that starts in highschool (where being physically present is much more important than being attentive in any form). This is an important point, and kinda scary; because I'm now actively aware of it and how I haven't viewed it this way before.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    I call it "performative productivity" since it's actually a performance.
- threwarew42343 6y ago
  This is a bit ironic, since this is exactly the description that Americans generally have of the Japanese.
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    Well everything is relative. If you lack an example more extreme than you by definition your stance is the most radical - which is neither inherently good nor bad.
Nursie 6y ago
As another European who has worked with a few Americans, I've seen a lot of "presenteeism", long hours but not really any greater productivity than their European counterparts
- randomcarbloke 6y ago
  My experience is much the same, they always want to be seen arriving early and leaving late but are happy to do fuck-all in between.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    Because a lot of management just seems to be looking for evidence of work happening and presence is seen as evidence.
  - icedchai 6y ago
    This is exactly true. I have a friend who used to spend "long hours" in the office. He basically did a VPN into his home network, where he works on hobby projects. Oh yeah, lots of reddit browsing, too. Presence is often equated with productivity.
  - Bhilai 6y ago
    I have coworkers who do minimal work to just get by and show up in meetings with strong opinions and argue endlessly over slack. They are generally smart but very lazy and very disorganized, so much so that people have brought it up the manager a few times but the manager shrugs and does not want to do much since it requires a lot of effort on manager's part to have difficult conversations and fix things.
  - mrguyorama 6y ago
    I (average american employee) don't get paid more to work harder or more efficiently and do better, but if my ass isn't in that seat from 8am to 5pm you can bet I'll be paid less. You want people to work harder? Pay them more for it. Or at least fairly
    - 6y ago
mseidl 6y ago
I'm a German developer that live in the US and I'd never go back. Even if I was poor I'd rather stay in the EU.
- batteryajar 6y ago
  What do you mean never go back? Never go back to the US? Or never go back to Germany?
  - frosted-flakes 6y ago
    I think GP meant to say lived in the US, as his last sentence implies that he currently lives in the EU.
  - mseidl 6y ago
    I'm a German that lived in the US, I'd never go back to the US. (to live/work)
    - etblg 6y ago
      Why not?
leguy 6y ago
Perhaps you're working with a self selecting group of Americans. As a US based developer with almost 20 years of experience across four cities and (as a consultant) many different corporate cultures, I've never met a single person who consistently works 10+ hour days, or more than 5 days per week.
- chillwaves 6y ago
  That's a bold claim. How well do you know all your coworkers schedule? As somehow who has worked for a shorter period of time, I've met dozens of such folk, many of which I have provided support for on weekends or odd times at night. In either case, anecdotes are not adding much to the discussion.
loosetypes 6y ago
> That's their grand plan, because that's when they'll start "living". Strikes me how similar this is to the mentality in adolescence so prevalent: once I get to college, then I’ll start “living”! We just keep kicking the can.
- ip26 6y ago
  There's many things you can't really do as an adolescent. Considering you can't choose where you live and have little to no income.
closeparen 6y ago
I find it hard to empathize with FIRE people [0] because I like my job. But the few I've discussed it with absolutely despise working. Like all-consuming, life-purpose-defining revulsion. And I think there's a feedback loop to it, because in trying to "get it over worth" they increase the intensity and make it worse for themselves. Then it becomes all the more important to get it over with quickly. I wonder if the European attitude is just more similar to mine, being comfortable with and accepting of a job as a backdrop to build a life around, rather than something intolerable to escape from ASAP at any cost. Probably has to do with the jobs themselves being more comfortable. [0] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/financial-independence-retire-early-fire.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/financial-independence-...
- FlyingSnake 6y ago
  > being comfortable with and accepting of a job as a backdrop to build a life around. As a Berliner, this is what most of my colleagues aim at. They all have colourful lives outside the office setting.
- finaliteration 6y ago
  I'm in the same boat as you. I don't totally get the push to retire early. In fact, I don't think I'll ever retire if I can continue working and doing something that I enjoy. I have colleagues who dream of spending their days on a golf course or doing projects around the house. That sounds like a horribly boring life, to me. I'd love to be able to keep working at and solving technical problems until I die. That, and I think my spouse and I would hate each other if we had to spend every moment together. We love each other dearly but also appreciate our time away from each other.
  - pb7 6y ago
    Solving technical problems until you die sounds much more boring than having the freedom to solve technical problems one day, teaching the next, volunteering the third, and taking the family on an extended weekend trip the rest of the week... or literally anything else you want to do. To each their own I suppose.
auganov 6y ago
> But from talking with them, it seems like their focus is on retirement - hopefully in their 50's. That's their grand plan, because that's when they'll start "living". It goes much deeper than that. The notion that work could not possibly be "living" is much more popular in Europe too. With employment so over-regulated and entrepreneurship discouraged it's easy to see why people treat "work" in a very transactional way. For most people there just isn't a lot of obvious upside waiting for them if they work extra hard. Salaries are extremely compressed compared to the US. The only way to make real money[0] in Europe is by running a business but that's discouraged too. Even education - there's no Ivy League of Europe, there's no Stanford. There are some schools that may be considered good, but elite - not really. [0] well I guess anywhere, but there are many diverse career paths in the US that will reliably get you to a few hundred k. In Europe not so much.
- dageshi 6y ago
  Oxford and Cambridge perhaps?
  - auganov 6y ago
    Well, if you consider that Europe then yes. For anybody living outside of the UK, going there isn't all that different from going to the US. The tuition is only somewhat cheaper too I think. As opposed to most "best" schools in mainland Europe being essentially free for locals. So I'd assume any kid in Europe planning to go to Oxford is probably planning to apply to American schools too. And not sure how reliably you could get accepted too. Like say for myself, when I was younger I really wanted to go to one of the top US schools (ended up not going to any). It was pretty obvious to me I'd never get accepted if I went to a local high-school so went to a prep-school in the US. The UK, I assume, has their equivalent of that too.
    - krn 6y ago
      > For anybody living outside of the UK, going there isn't all that different from going to the US. The tuition is only somewhat cheaper too I think. As opposed to most "best" schools in mainland Europe being essentially free for locals. The EU citizens from outside the UK are able to study in Scotland without paying any tuition fees. The University of Edinburgh is as highly ranked internationally, as Yale, Columbia, and Cornell[1]. The University of St Andrews is as highly ranked locally, as Cambridge and Oxford[2]. > So I'd assume any kid in Europe planning to go to Oxford is probably planning to apply to American schools too. That's completely wrong. Almost nobody is considering the US when applying to the universities in England, because England offers Tution Fee Loan to all EU students, that only needs to be repaid when one's income is over the repayment threshold[3]. However, this might end in 2021, because of Brexit. [1] https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2021 https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-un... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2019/jun/07/university-league-tables-2020 https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2019/ju... [3] https://www.ucas.com/finance/student-finance-england/tuition-fee-loans-full-time-students https://www.ucas.com/finance/student-finance-england/tuition...
hardwaregeek 6y ago
I see this with traveling. I love traveling and 100% plan on using some of the money I've gotten from tech to travel. But many of my classmates have an attitude of "later". They make decent salaries, they have the time and freedom. But they don't do anything cool with it! I get living within your means and being frugal but damn if you're making six figures you can afford a trip or two.
BurningFrog 6y ago
As a Scandinavian who moved to the US, my impressions from my limited personal experience is that - Swedes do clock out after 8 hours, but they work all that time. - Americans can spend a lot more time at work, but there is a lot of "just hanging out" going on.
- seppin 6y ago
  I have heard this exact statement from multiple Swedes. I have seen them goof off just like their American counterparts.
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    Obviously we try to fit in when abroad.
    - seppin 6y ago
      This was the Stockholm office, but the foreigners (especially the English) absolutely had an impact haha.
thephyber 6y ago
As an American that makes good money, I don't think medical costs make retiring in the USA in my 50s a high likelihood probability. There is a medical cost cliff at 65 when Medicare (large medical subsidies for retired-aged people) kicks in, but the private medical costs of an old-but-not-quite-65 person are pretty high, especially in the USA where pretty much all food is optimized to overload your senses (and as a side-effect, your pancreas).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sukilot 6y ago
I hope you show due appreciation for the products and services those 70 hr weeks brought to your present life.

marcodave 6y ago

which then begs the question: if you spent your whole life working more, and focusing on getting more money, assuming that you can retire in your 50s, can you REALLY stop working? or will you depress yourself because there's nothing else to do? retiring early seems great on paper, but at what cost?

TrackerFF 6y ago
Yes, it depends on work and what type you are. I've talked with lots of older colleagues that dread retirement, mostly because they enjoy work and they also enjoy the people they work with. Some people will do just fine with their hobbies and projects, others will have a hard time adapting - many even coming out of retirement, due to boredom. Really depends on the individual. One thing I've heard a lot, from older colleagues, is that people tend to become mentally dull once they go into retirement - at least on the skills they used daily at work. You need to be pretty disciplined and motivated to maintain your skills at a professional level, once there's no hurry or pressure to deliver anything. Days turn into weeks, weeks into months, months into years - before you know it, you've spent a couple of years of your retirement just chilling around.
Viliam1234 6y ago
also, can you really stop working in your 50s when the health problems come and you realize you now need your employer for the health insurance?
- mgkimsal 6y ago
  or you can buy it yourself. budget for it like any other expense. it's not necessarily cheap, but it's not something so astronomical that no one can afford it at all. Many people somehow find $700/month for their favorite SUV, but $700/month for health insurance is unattainable. I'm not saying the system is great - I'm in favor of single-payer system overall. But tying access to health insurance to employment as a default mindset really has to be stopped, somehow.
  - electricviolet 6y ago
    Most of the people for whom $700/month for health insurance is unattainable are not spending $700/month on car payments. There's bound to be some overlap, sure, but let's keep the focus on the fact that expecting everyone to pay $700/month in order to not go bankrupt from health expenses is insane.
    - missedthecue 6y ago
      Isn't the average monthly payment in germany over $800?
      - ratww 6y ago
        National average is around 3800. Minimum is 1584, I think.
      - Xylakant 6y ago
        The maximum monthly payment you can have for german public health insurance is 14.6% of 4.687,50 EUR per month in 2020 - that's about 800USD. Mind you, maximum, not average. 14.6% of your wage is the health insurance deductible, 4.687,50 EUR is the so-called "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze", that is the cap from which on your wage is free - it's regularly adjusted (upwards usually). You can reach that maximum if you are self employed and voluntarily member of the public health insurance - meaning you have to pay both the employers and the employees share. If you're employed, your employer pays about half of it. Your chosen health insurance can optionally add an extra fee, usually less than a percent or two, most are free.
elindbe2 6y ago
That seems overly dramatic. Yes, you can retire in your 50s (or 30s-40s with a good paying job) and stop working. There is always plenty to do in this great wide world that we live in if you have even a modicum of imagination.
- bronco21016 6y ago
  Yet going on the FIRE or fatFIRE (financial independence, retire early) forums you encounter countless examples of people who achieve early retirement and lose their minds. They’re bored because they worked so hard and no longer know what to do with themselves. They didn’t spend any time developing other interests or hobbies because they were engrossed in chasing the paycheck. Some are so engrossed in chasing the money that they don’t even stop to consider what they MIGHT do if they retire early.
  - r-s 6y ago
    I rarely seem to see that on the FIRE forums. It seems like 99% of people on those forums are trying to achieve FIRE, and very little discussion about those who have.
  - sacred_numbers 6y ago
    I think that might be confirmation bias. The people who happily retire and have the freedom to do whatever they want are less likely to talk about it on a forum; they'll just go live their lives. Conversely, if a person banks all of their happiness on retiring early and then is unhappy they are more likely to talk about it on a forum. It's a similar phenomenon to the prevalence of negative reviews outweighing positive reviews.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    Here's an option: keep working, but without any of the stress associated with needing to work. This isn't rocket science, workaholics.
  - elindbe2 6y ago
    Having spent much time there I've encountered plenty of people who haven't been bored in retirement. That's the beauty of being FI anyways, if you want to work then work. If you don't want to work then don't work. Simple as that.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

thomasdullien 6y ago

There are also cultural factors about how you present your work. GC Rota wrote about the mathematics culture in the 50's that European and US researchers worked similar amounts, but the Europeans took great care to present an image of working less than they actually did, and the US researchers often presented an image of working more than they did. My experiences of working both in the US and in Europe (Germany and Switzerland) was that the number of hours worked in the US was higher, but the intensity of work was lower: There was more office chitchat, more goofing around, more "watercooler/coffee talk", and so forth. There is also an extreme culture of "presenteeism" in the US that starts in highschool (where being physically present is much more important than being attentive in any form).

workingname 6y ago
> "presenteeism" in the US that starts in highschool (where being physically present is much more important than being attentive in any form). This is an important point, and kinda scary; because I'm now actively aware of it and how I haven't viewed it this way before.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I call it "performative productivity" since it's actually a performance.
threwarew42343 6y ago
This is a bit ironic, since this is exactly the description that Americans generally have of the Japanese.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  Well everything is relative. If you lack an example more extreme than you by definition your stance is the most radical - which is neither inherently good nor bad.

Nursie 6y ago

As another European who has worked with a few Americans, I've seen a lot of "presenteeism", long hours but not really any greater productivity than their European counterparts

randomcarbloke 6y ago
My experience is much the same, they always want to be seen arriving early and leaving late but are happy to do fuck-all in between.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  Because a lot of management just seems to be looking for evidence of work happening and presence is seen as evidence.
- icedchai 6y ago
  This is exactly true. I have a friend who used to spend "long hours" in the office. He basically did a VPN into his home network, where he works on hobby projects. Oh yeah, lots of reddit browsing, too. Presence is often equated with productivity.
- Bhilai 6y ago
  I have coworkers who do minimal work to just get by and show up in meetings with strong opinions and argue endlessly over slack. They are generally smart but very lazy and very disorganized, so much so that people have brought it up the manager a few times but the manager shrugs and does not want to do much since it requires a lot of effort on manager's part to have difficult conversations and fix things.
- mrguyorama 6y ago
  I (average american employee) don't get paid more to work harder or more efficiently and do better, but if my ass isn't in that seat from 8am to 5pm you can bet I'll be paid less. You want people to work harder? Pay them more for it. Or at least fairly
  - 6y ago

mseidl 6y ago

I'm a German developer that live in the US and I'd never go back. Even if I was poor I'd rather stay in the EU.

batteryajar 6y ago
What do you mean never go back? Never go back to the US? Or never go back to Germany?
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  I think GP meant to say lived in the US, as his last sentence implies that he currently lives in the EU.
- mseidl 6y ago
  I'm a German that lived in the US, I'd never go back to the US. (to live/work)
  - etblg 6y ago
    Why not?

leguy 6y ago

Perhaps you're working with a self selecting group of Americans. As a US based developer with almost 20 years of experience across four cities and (as a consultant) many different corporate cultures, I've never met a single person who consistently works 10+ hour days, or more than 5 days per week.

chillwaves 6y ago
That's a bold claim. How well do you know all your coworkers schedule? As somehow who has worked for a shorter period of time, I've met dozens of such folk, many of which I have provided support for on weekends or odd times at night. In either case, anecdotes are not adding much to the discussion.

loosetypes 6y ago

> That's their grand plan, because that's when they'll start "living". Strikes me how similar this is to the mentality in adolescence so prevalent: once I get to college, then I’ll start “living”! We just keep kicking the can.

ip26 6y ago
There's many things you can't really do as an adolescent. Considering you can't choose where you live and have little to no income.

closeparen 6y ago

I find it hard to empathize with FIRE people [0] because I like my job. But the few I've discussed it with absolutely despise working. Like all-consuming, life-purpose-defining revulsion. And I think there's a feedback loop to it, because in trying to "get it over worth" they increase the intensity and make it worse for themselves. Then it becomes all the more important to get it over with quickly. I wonder if the European attitude is just more similar to mine, being comfortable with and accepting of a job as a backdrop to build a life around, rather than something intolerable to escape from ASAP at any cost. Probably has to do with the jobs themselves being more comfortable. [0] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/financial-independence-retire-early-fire.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/financial-independence-...

FlyingSnake 6y ago
> being comfortable with and accepting of a job as a backdrop to build a life around. As a Berliner, this is what most of my colleagues aim at. They all have colourful lives outside the office setting.
finaliteration 6y ago
I'm in the same boat as you. I don't totally get the push to retire early. In fact, I don't think I'll ever retire if I can continue working and doing something that I enjoy. I have colleagues who dream of spending their days on a golf course or doing projects around the house. That sounds like a horribly boring life, to me. I'd love to be able to keep working at and solving technical problems until I die. That, and I think my spouse and I would hate each other if we had to spend every moment together. We love each other dearly but also appreciate our time away from each other.
- pb7 6y ago
  Solving technical problems until you die sounds much more boring than having the freedom to solve technical problems one day, teaching the next, volunteering the third, and taking the family on an extended weekend trip the rest of the week... or literally anything else you want to do. To each their own I suppose.

auganov 6y ago

> But from talking with them, it seems like their focus is on retirement - hopefully in their 50's. That's their grand plan, because that's when they'll start "living". It goes much deeper than that. The notion that work could not possibly be "living" is much more popular in Europe too. With employment so over-regulated and entrepreneurship discouraged it's easy to see why people treat "work" in a very transactional way. For most people there just isn't a lot of obvious upside waiting for them if they work extra hard. Salaries are extremely compressed compared to the US. The only way to make real money[0] in Europe is by running a business but that's discouraged too. Even education - there's no Ivy League of Europe, there's no Stanford. There are some schools that may be considered good, but elite - not really. [0] well I guess anywhere, but there are many diverse career paths in the US that will reliably get you to a few hundred k. In Europe not so much.

dageshi 6y ago
Oxford and Cambridge perhaps?
- auganov 6y ago
  Well, if you consider that Europe then yes. For anybody living outside of the UK, going there isn't all that different from going to the US. The tuition is only somewhat cheaper too I think. As opposed to most "best" schools in mainland Europe being essentially free for locals. So I'd assume any kid in Europe planning to go to Oxford is probably planning to apply to American schools too. And not sure how reliably you could get accepted too. Like say for myself, when I was younger I really wanted to go to one of the top US schools (ended up not going to any). It was pretty obvious to me I'd never get accepted if I went to a local high-school so went to a prep-school in the US. The UK, I assume, has their equivalent of that too.
  - krn 6y ago
    > For anybody living outside of the UK, going there isn't all that different from going to the US. The tuition is only somewhat cheaper too I think. As opposed to most "best" schools in mainland Europe being essentially free for locals. The EU citizens from outside the UK are able to study in Scotland without paying any tuition fees. The University of Edinburgh is as highly ranked internationally, as Yale, Columbia, and Cornell[1]. The University of St Andrews is as highly ranked locally, as Cambridge and Oxford[2]. > So I'd assume any kid in Europe planning to go to Oxford is probably planning to apply to American schools too. That's completely wrong. Almost nobody is considering the US when applying to the universities in England, because England offers Tution Fee Loan to all EU students, that only needs to be repaid when one's income is over the repayment threshold[3]. However, this might end in 2021, because of Brexit. [1] https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2021 https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-un... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2019/jun/07/university-league-tables-2020 https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2019/ju... [3] https://www.ucas.com/finance/student-finance-england/tuition-fee-loans-full-time-students https://www.ucas.com/finance/student-finance-england/tuition...

hardwaregeek 6y ago

I see this with traveling. I love traveling and 100% plan on using some of the money I've gotten from tech to travel. But many of my classmates have an attitude of "later". They make decent salaries, they have the time and freedom. But they don't do anything cool with it! I get living within your means and being frugal but damn if you're making six figures you can afford a trip or two.

BurningFrog 6y ago

As a Scandinavian who moved to the US, my impressions from my limited personal experience is that - Swedes do clock out after 8 hours, but they work all that time. - Americans can spend a lot more time at work, but there is a lot of "just hanging out" going on.

seppin 6y ago
I have heard this exact statement from multiple Swedes. I have seen them goof off just like their American counterparts.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  Obviously we try to fit in when abroad.
  - seppin 6y ago
    This was the Stockholm office, but the foreigners (especially the English) absolutely had an impact haha.

thephyber 6y ago

As an American that makes good money, I don't think medical costs make retiring in the USA in my 50s a high likelihood probability. There is a medical cost cliff at 65 when Medicare (large medical subsidies for retired-aged people) kicks in, but the private medical costs of an old-but-not-quite-65 person are pretty high, especially in the USA where pretty much all food is optimized to overload your senses (and as a side-effect, your pancreas).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sukilot 6y ago

I hope you show due appreciation for the products and services those 70 hr weeks brought to your present life.