7 ms·

I only compare gross income because I work remotely. My healthcare costs are the same if I work for German client or US client. And German pay sucks.

mschuster91 6y ago
I have ignored remote work for exactly this reason - it's obvious that someone on a six figure SV salary can live like a king in Asia but in the SV still may be forced to live in a car (both literally as in rough sleeping or figuratively as in being stuck in commute hours a day). But jobs and people capable and willing to do this are rare in absolute numbers.
- ddorian43 6y ago
  I don't have a lot of experience and confidence regarding this, but pretty sure DE,NL,ES,IT pay sucks compared to US as an example (as a local).
  - benhurmarcel 6y ago
    You can't put German and Dutch salaries in the same categories as Spain and Italy. There's easily a 50% difference. German salaries are really attractive for Europe.
    - ddorian43 6y ago
      It still sucks compared to US.
      - mschuster91 6y ago
        Even after taking out cost of rent, cost of living and cost of healthcare? I highly doubt that.
        andreaorru 6y ago
        Having worked in both places, yes, they still suck in comparison.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    In absolute numbers German pay may suck, but once you factor in lower rents (e.g. in Munich a 60 m2 2-br flat in the city center will set you back ~1200 €), lower healthcare costs (no co pays aside of 5€/Rx, no "out of pocket" costs for medically indicated procedures), a decent pension scheme and lower cost of food and other expenses, suddenly it is competitive.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
I'm also in Germany for the moment. How did you get US remote jobs if I might ask?
- ddorian43 6y ago
  You just apply ? There are a lot of job boards & places to find remote jobs. I only work in CET and not all of them allow this. Company I work now for example has developers in different timezones. You will have a meeting once a week at 19-20 though. UK is also much better and the timezone is ~same. I've mostly worked with US, UK, CA, IR (subsidiary of US). An easier way is to focus your skills and specialize in, say, scalability/search-engine/low-level/ml. There will be less jobs, (compared to js), but you will have more leverage.
dx034 6y ago
To be fair, that's also because with US salaries, you get a rate that's adjusted to a much higher cost of living. If you adjust for that, you can get similar salaries as a programmer in finance or pharma in Germany. I completely agree that overall salaries are lower in Germany even adjusted for cost of living but the insane price levels in SV compared to most parts of Germany skew that even more. The situation is more severe in the UK where central London has similar cost of living as NYC or SV but salaries at a quarter of SV levels outside of finance.

mschuster91 6y ago

I have ignored remote work for exactly this reason - it's obvious that someone on a six figure SV salary can live like a king in Asia but in the SV still may be forced to live in a car (both literally as in rough sleeping or figuratively as in being stuck in commute hours a day). But jobs and people capable and willing to do this are rare in absolute numbers.

ddorian43 6y ago
I don't have a lot of experience and confidence regarding this, but pretty sure DE,NL,ES,IT pay sucks compared to US as an example (as a local).
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  You can't put German and Dutch salaries in the same categories as Spain and Italy. There's easily a 50% difference. German salaries are really attractive for Europe.
  - ddorian43 6y ago
    It still sucks compared to US.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      Even after taking out cost of rent, cost of living and cost of healthcare? I highly doubt that.
      - andreaorru 6y ago
        Having worked in both places, yes, they still suck in comparison.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  In absolute numbers German pay may suck, but once you factor in lower rents (e.g. in Munich a 60 m2 2-br flat in the city center will set you back ~1200 €), lower healthcare costs (no co pays aside of 5€/Rx, no "out of pocket" costs for medically indicated procedures), a decent pension scheme and lower cost of food and other expenses, suddenly it is competitive.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

I'm also in Germany for the moment. How did you get US remote jobs if I might ask?

ddorian43 6y ago
You just apply ? There are a lot of job boards & places to find remote jobs. I only work in CET and not all of them allow this. Company I work now for example has developers in different timezones. You will have a meeting once a week at 19-20 though. UK is also much better and the timezone is ~same. I've mostly worked with US, UK, CA, IR (subsidiary of US). An easier way is to focus your skills and specialize in, say, scalability/search-engine/low-level/ml. There will be less jobs, (compared to js), but you will have more leverage.

dx034 6y ago

To be fair, that's also because with US salaries, you get a rate that's adjusted to a much higher cost of living. If you adjust for that, you can get similar salaries as a programmer in finance or pharma in Germany. I completely agree that overall salaries are lower in Germany even adjusted for cost of living but the insane price levels in SV compared to most parts of Germany skew that even more. The situation is more severe in the UK where central London has similar cost of living as NYC or SV but salaries at a quarter of SV levels outside of finance.