4 ms·

Speaking as someone who owns a 64 panhead and owned a 72 ironhead (rebuilt both from parts): Harleys have almost always been inferior bikes that have a strange

Speaking as someone who owns a 64 panhead and owned a 72 ironhead (rebuilt both from parts): Harleys have almost always been inferior bikes that have a strange sort of charm. Realistically, they occupy the same place as Ural, outdated bikes that have appeal mostly for style. The last time that Harley had anything cutting-edge (ignoring Buell) was likely the knucklehead, which was developed in the 30s. $8k will buy you a used one (not new), but there is a damn good reason there are used Harleys with essentially zero miles avaliable everywhere. I have fun riding my antique crap, but the new ones are such crappy bikes for the money. A new BMW is the same money, for a more comfortable bike that is less maintenance cost. However, I used to live on the route to Sturgis for most of Colorado, Arizona, and western Texas, and I saw probably 80% trailers vs bikes. People don't buy them to ride them, they buy them to fulfill their midlife crisis. To further derail, I would argue Jack Daniel's, Levis, and REI are in the same boat- they are grossly overpriced compared to superior competitors and mostly trade on name brand and perception of past quality.

stickfigure 6y ago
REI, really? What are the superior competitors? And do you mean specifically the house-branded gear or the store as a whole? Genuinely curious, since I still shop there. Prices aren't the best but I like the selection and the return policy. Plus the salesdroids actually seem familiar with the gear.
- topkai22 6y ago
  I’m with you- REI does premium retail really well and that involves more then being just a brand. You can save money elsewhere for equivalent gear, but you won’t get the same service.
  - jacobkania 6y ago
    I’m a big REI fan. I’m not one of those people who hikes every week or anything, but I like to go backpacking and hiking when I can. I also have met lots of people who do the same, and REI is pretty highly regarded among most people. Their products might not be the top-end in every category, but I’ve rarely had an issue with anything bought from them. Plus their service is so outstanding, I’ve been taken care of any time there’s been a problem. It’s totally worth it to me to spend a little more, to get the peace of mind that it’s a fairly good product (they don’t sell anything horrible like you’ll get on amazon or a dept store), and that they’ll take care of any issue that does happen.
  - mrexroad 6y ago
    If you're patient, and buy exclusively at sales, REI gear is usually an decent deal for the quality when 25%-50% off. I’ve abused a number of REI bags and tents over past few years when camping with scouts, with no failures yet.
    - sswaner 6y ago
      Same here. My REI Hobitat and Kingdom tents are 10 years into being the last tents I buy. High enough quality to break the 3-4 year replacement cycle of everything else I tried.
- zrobotics 6y ago
  They sell almost entirely 'outdoor apparel' that is geared at people wanting to wear the brand. REI used to loon almost like an army-surplus store rather than a clothing store, and the clothing was fully functional but unfashionable. Think 100% wool garments, the scratchy stuff that never wore out and was warmer wet than dry and more equipment than clothing. My last REI hiking frame was a huge disappointment, it started to have welds cracking after 40 fairly easy miles. They do still have a decent warranty policy, but if I'm up in the wilderness that doesn't do me any good, I just want the same quality as they used to have (I.E. I have inherited gear that is still good after years of abuse, but have bought gear that has worn out in 3 years). As far as superior competitors, unfortunately they are hard to find. I've had the best luck just searching for army-surplus equipment on ebay, as all the army surplus stores seem to have disappeared. But for apparel, definitely look for vintage Woolrich or wool milsurp. It's scratchy, but that's what undergarments are for, and when you accidentally slide down 200' of snow and get covered it's absolutely the best, none of the more modern gear I've tried even compares.
  - stickfigure 6y ago
    Hmmmm, I wonder if this just isn't changing market preferences. I also grew up backpacking with external frame packs, PMS boots, and scratchy wool shirts. My current outfit is nowhere near as durable, but it's 5-10 lbs lighter. Thinner nylons, smaller zippers, internal frames, synthetic boot materials, lightweight fabrics, etc... the weight has to come from somewhere. I still have my old Kelty external frame pack. I haven't used it in 20 years and I probably never will again. It's just more fun traveling with less weight. If that means I have to replace gear more often... it's worth it.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - komali2 6y ago
    As another poster said, ultralight is the wave of the future. But Patagonia makes the kind of gear you're looking for. It's not cheap but it's damn near bullet proof.
- snapetom 6y ago
  I can't speak for the REI brand, as I have no experience with it. However, most of their inventory in-store is not REI brand, but higher end brands. I go there for running and biking equipment. While stuff is going to cost an arm and a leg, I can rely on it. I remember balking at the $110 price tag on a Craft long sleeve running shirt about three years ago. I bought it anyway. I wear it 4x a week from October through March, and it goes through the washer after every use. It's as good as the day I bought it. Best $110 I ever spent.
cptnapalm 6y ago
I have a Ural :) Yes on the style part, but also yes on easy maintenance. Only real problem I've had is with the Brembo front brake.
antihero 6y ago
Are there bikes with the aesthetic style of Harleys that are better? I for one really dislike modern looking bikes.
- wcarron 6y ago
  Off the top of my head: Indian Scout, Indian FTR 1200, BMW RNineT, Yamaha Bolt, Yamaha XSR900/XSR700, Honda Rebel 500, Honda CB650R, Kawasaki Z900RS, Suzuki Boulevard
- dharmab 6y ago
  You literally cannot go wrong with a Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha or Suzuki cruiser. They're almost universally fantastic machines. The market for Yamaha V-Stars from the 00s right now is amazing, too- all of the midlife crisis bikes bought during the fad era of 2002-2008 are now at the bottom of their depreciation curve and flooding the market. Many of them look like they just rolled off the showroom floor. If you must buy American, everything Indian makes except the FTR1200 has a great classic look. (The FTR is cool too but very modernized).

stickfigure 6y ago

REI, really? What are the superior competitors? And do you mean specifically the house-branded gear or the store as a whole? Genuinely curious, since I still shop there. Prices aren't the best but I like the selection and the return policy. Plus the salesdroids actually seem familiar with the gear.

topkai22 6y ago
I’m with you- REI does premium retail really well and that involves more then being just a brand. You can save money elsewhere for equivalent gear, but you won’t get the same service.
- jacobkania 6y ago
  I’m a big REI fan. I’m not one of those people who hikes every week or anything, but I like to go backpacking and hiking when I can. I also have met lots of people who do the same, and REI is pretty highly regarded among most people. Their products might not be the top-end in every category, but I’ve rarely had an issue with anything bought from them. Plus their service is so outstanding, I’ve been taken care of any time there’s been a problem. It’s totally worth it to me to spend a little more, to get the peace of mind that it’s a fairly good product (they don’t sell anything horrible like you’ll get on amazon or a dept store), and that they’ll take care of any issue that does happen.
- mrexroad 6y ago
  If you're patient, and buy exclusively at sales, REI gear is usually an decent deal for the quality when 25%-50% off. I’ve abused a number of REI bags and tents over past few years when camping with scouts, with no failures yet.
  - sswaner 6y ago
    Same here. My REI Hobitat and Kingdom tents are 10 years into being the last tents I buy. High enough quality to break the 3-4 year replacement cycle of everything else I tried.
zrobotics 6y ago
They sell almost entirely 'outdoor apparel' that is geared at people wanting to wear the brand. REI used to loon almost like an army-surplus store rather than a clothing store, and the clothing was fully functional but unfashionable. Think 100% wool garments, the scratchy stuff that never wore out and was warmer wet than dry and more equipment than clothing. My last REI hiking frame was a huge disappointment, it started to have welds cracking after 40 fairly easy miles. They do still have a decent warranty policy, but if I'm up in the wilderness that doesn't do me any good, I just want the same quality as they used to have (I.E. I have inherited gear that is still good after years of abuse, but have bought gear that has worn out in 3 years). As far as superior competitors, unfortunately they are hard to find. I've had the best luck just searching for army-surplus equipment on ebay, as all the army surplus stores seem to have disappeared. But for apparel, definitely look for vintage Woolrich or wool milsurp. It's scratchy, but that's what undergarments are for, and when you accidentally slide down 200' of snow and get covered it's absolutely the best, none of the more modern gear I've tried even compares.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  Hmmmm, I wonder if this just isn't changing market preferences. I also grew up backpacking with external frame packs, PMS boots, and scratchy wool shirts. My current outfit is nowhere near as durable, but it's 5-10 lbs lighter. Thinner nylons, smaller zippers, internal frames, synthetic boot materials, lightweight fabrics, etc... the weight has to come from somewhere. I still have my old Kelty external frame pack. I haven't used it in 20 years and I probably never will again. It's just more fun traveling with less weight. If that means I have to replace gear more often... it's worth it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- komali2 6y ago
  As another poster said, ultralight is the wave of the future. But Patagonia makes the kind of gear you're looking for. It's not cheap but it's damn near bullet proof.
snapetom 6y ago
I can't speak for the REI brand, as I have no experience with it. However, most of their inventory in-store is not REI brand, but higher end brands. I go there for running and biking equipment. While stuff is going to cost an arm and a leg, I can rely on it. I remember balking at the $110 price tag on a Craft long sleeve running shirt about three years ago. I bought it anyway. I wear it 4x a week from October through March, and it goes through the washer after every use. It's as good as the day I bought it. Best $110 I ever spent.

cptnapalm 6y ago

I have a Ural :) Yes on the style part, but also yes on easy maintenance. Only real problem I've had is with the Brembo front brake.

antihero 6y ago

Are there bikes with the aesthetic style of Harleys that are better? I for one really dislike modern looking bikes.

wcarron 6y ago
Off the top of my head: Indian Scout, Indian FTR 1200, BMW RNineT, Yamaha Bolt, Yamaha XSR900/XSR700, Honda Rebel 500, Honda CB650R, Kawasaki Z900RS, Suzuki Boulevard
dharmab 6y ago
You literally cannot go wrong with a Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha or Suzuki cruiser. They're almost universally fantastic machines. The market for Yamaha V-Stars from the 00s right now is amazing, too- all of the midlife crisis bikes bought during the fad era of 2002-2008 are now at the bottom of their depreciation curve and flooding the market. Many of them look like they just rolled off the showroom floor. If you must buy American, everything Indian makes except the FTR1200 has a great classic look. (The FTR is cool too but very modernized).