5 ms·

I'm 35, so kind of in the middle. Frankly speaking,I'd hate to work in a company where an average age is 20 as much as where an average age is 60. Sometimes I s

I'm 35, so kind of in the middle. Frankly speaking,I'd hate to work in a company where an average age is 20 as much as where an average age is 60. Sometimes I see job ads with things like ' youthful colleagues',which is crazy. I want to work in an environment,where I can talk to someone in their early 20s and gain from their perspective and understanding and also to someone who's been round the block a few times and can tell off the bat that the shit I came up with minutes ago is neither smart nor useful because X,Y,Z. Putting all this aside, one thing to consider is that there are there are tons of companies out there that do have reasonably easy operational model,which,once streamlined, doesn't require senior people,or only very few. And those companies are very happy to keep thr status quo by only employing from certain demographics.

moksly 6y ago
In my country there is an industry in setting up your software company to simulate university life to attract the newly educated developers. You’ll get cheap, extremely motivated employees, who spend almost all their time at your company thanks to boardgame/role play/pizza nights and you get them to keep up-to-date on techs by having them do weekly tech-workshops and presentations. They produce a lot of cheap code, sometimes the quality is decent, other tones it isn’t, and their most talented developers tend to leave for “adult” jobs after a few years, but overall it has been a very successful strategy.
- ErikAugust 6y ago
  Is your country America?
  - adverbly 6y ago
    It sounds like America, except for the hiring for cheap bit... American companies pay a lot more on avg for their devs than other countries.
    - scruple 6y ago
      But younger engineers can be had more cheaply than experienced engineers. There is also a culture of having to prove yourself which often leads to junior engineers taking positions with companies that are toxic and which dramatically underpay them in order to get some years of experience. I think in our pandemic world, there is also a problem where people who may want to change jobs, due to poor working conditions, will stay put in fear of losing their pay check. These things and more, I'm sure, all compound against all of us, but I think can be felt more strongly at the lower end of the experience range.
- aloisdg 6y ago
  France's startup scene is quite like this.
- javier10e6 6y ago
  oh yeah, the "pizza" party. 50+ developer here. As I age, pizza and games feel more like going to Chuckee Cheese (a US pizza chain for children's birthday parties). I rather watch a soccer match at the nearest bar or play freesbee in the parking lot.
II2II 6y ago
I would go a step further by suggesting that diverse workplaces are healthier since people are more inclined to consider the perspectives of others. The most toxic workplaces I have experienced have been monocultures. In those cases exclusionary behaviour ran rampant, even within a peer group.
hiram112 6y ago
> I'm 35, so kind of in the middle. And this is exactly the problem with tech. At 35, you're only about one decade into your career. Lawyers, doctors, professors, etc. at 35 would still be considered relatively young, with plenty of time to become partner, senior surgeon, obtain tenure, whatever. But you're now at peak salary, and can expect inflation raises now. And worst of all, you've got 30 years left until you can obtain Medicare, so if you aren't working full time at a job with decent benefits, you're absolutely screwed, especially if you 'dare' decide to have a family, 30 year mortgage, etc. People often live 'till mid 80s nowadays, and can't receive any sort of benefits (in the US) 'till mid to late 60s. If your career is peaked and trending downhill at 35, and you're not making millions of dollars in your prime (professional sports, fashion model), there is something wrong with your industry.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  > Lawyers, doctors, professors, etc. at 35 would still be considered relatively young, with plenty of time to become partner, senior surgeon, obtain tenure, whatever. After ten years in a mature field, haven't you learned, or even mastered, a large portion of your specialty? You're 95% there already?
  - Solvitieg 6y ago
    I think OP was making the case that at age 35, non-tech workers don't have ten years experience; rather, they are just starting their professional careers due to school.
SubuSS 6y ago
Have you worked in a company where the average age was that low? When I joined Snap about 5 years ago, I was middle aged compared to the average which was probably in 20s - even my CEO is reasonably younger than me :). The company was also pretty small (100?). From that (single/anecdotal) data point, I'd say it is not as bad as you portray. There is definitely an affinity to try new things - part of your job is evaluating it for all its worth rather than its glitter and ensuring you communicate that well / provide value. I always try to focus the conversation on the problem we are trying to solve and how the new tech is solving it better. The good alternatives usually seem to catch on very quick (See Go vs Java, Kotlin vs Java) compared to the also ran technologies. Your worth will kick in based on your skill level in judging these and definitely in getting to a mentoring role rather than a gate keeper role. But it has been a lot of fun. The agility is also something to keep in mind: Snap allows for extreme career mobility. Recently I switched teams from doing data related work (for the past 15 years?) to a complete unknown of joining our spectacles team and Snap has been supportive. You just don't see the typecasting you tend to hear about in bigger companies. So yeah - give it a shot with an open mind! You may be surprised!

moksly 6y ago

In my country there is an industry in setting up your software company to simulate university life to attract the newly educated developers. You’ll get cheap, extremely motivated employees, who spend almost all their time at your company thanks to boardgame/role play/pizza nights and you get them to keep up-to-date on techs by having them do weekly tech-workshops and presentations. They produce a lot of cheap code, sometimes the quality is decent, other tones it isn’t, and their most talented developers tend to leave for “adult” jobs after a few years, but overall it has been a very successful strategy.

ErikAugust 6y ago
Is your country America?
- adverbly 6y ago
  It sounds like America, except for the hiring for cheap bit... American companies pay a lot more on avg for their devs than other countries.
  - scruple 6y ago
    But younger engineers can be had more cheaply than experienced engineers. There is also a culture of having to prove yourself which often leads to junior engineers taking positions with companies that are toxic and which dramatically underpay them in order to get some years of experience. I think in our pandemic world, there is also a problem where people who may want to change jobs, due to poor working conditions, will stay put in fear of losing their pay check. These things and more, I'm sure, all compound against all of us, but I think can be felt more strongly at the lower end of the experience range.
aloisdg 6y ago
France's startup scene is quite like this.
javier10e6 6y ago
oh yeah, the "pizza" party. 50+ developer here. As I age, pizza and games feel more like going to Chuckee Cheese (a US pizza chain for children's birthday parties). I rather watch a soccer match at the nearest bar or play freesbee in the parking lot.

II2II 6y ago

I would go a step further by suggesting that diverse workplaces are healthier since people are more inclined to consider the perspectives of others. The most toxic workplaces I have experienced have been monocultures. In those cases exclusionary behaviour ran rampant, even within a peer group.

hiram112 6y ago

> I'm 35, so kind of in the middle. And this is exactly the problem with tech. At 35, you're only about one decade into your career. Lawyers, doctors, professors, etc. at 35 would still be considered relatively young, with plenty of time to become partner, senior surgeon, obtain tenure, whatever. But you're now at peak salary, and can expect inflation raises now. And worst of all, you've got 30 years left until you can obtain Medicare, so if you aren't working full time at a job with decent benefits, you're absolutely screwed, especially if you 'dare' decide to have a family, 30 year mortgage, etc. People often live 'till mid 80s nowadays, and can't receive any sort of benefits (in the US) 'till mid to late 60s. If your career is peaked and trending downhill at 35, and you're not making millions of dollars in your prime (professional sports, fashion model), there is something wrong with your industry.

dehrmann 6y ago
> Lawyers, doctors, professors, etc. at 35 would still be considered relatively young, with plenty of time to become partner, senior surgeon, obtain tenure, whatever. After ten years in a mature field, haven't you learned, or even mastered, a large portion of your specialty? You're 95% there already?
- Solvitieg 6y ago
  I think OP was making the case that at age 35, non-tech workers don't have ten years experience; rather, they are just starting their professional careers due to school.

SubuSS 6y ago

Have you worked in a company where the average age was that low? When I joined Snap about 5 years ago, I was middle aged compared to the average which was probably in 20s - even my CEO is reasonably younger than me :). The company was also pretty small (100?). From that (single/anecdotal) data point, I'd say it is not as bad as you portray. There is definitely an affinity to try new things - part of your job is evaluating it for all its worth rather than its glitter and ensuring you communicate that well / provide value. I always try to focus the conversation on the problem we are trying to solve and how the new tech is solving it better. The good alternatives usually seem to catch on very quick (See Go vs Java, Kotlin vs Java) compared to the also ran technologies. Your worth will kick in based on your skill level in judging these and definitely in getting to a mentoring role rather than a gate keeper role. But it has been a lot of fun. The agility is also something to keep in mind: Snap allows for extreme career mobility. Recently I switched teams from doing data related work (for the past 15 years?) to a complete unknown of joining our spectacles team and Snap has been supportive. You just don't see the typecasting you tend to hear about in bigger companies. So yeah - give it a shot with an open mind! You may be surprised!