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My European take on this: while upper class salaries might be 2-3x above middle-class salaries they don’t afford you a lifestyle that would be unrecognizable to

My European take on this: while upper class salaries might be 2-3x above middle-class salaries they don’t afford you a lifestyle that would be unrecognizable to a middle-class family. Maybe a nicer neighborhood, maybe more long-distance traveling, a good restaurant from time to time. But you’re certainly not removed from the idea that even a smaller loss in income has a direct impact on your lifestyle. So the upper class is as afraid of a loss in income as the middle class. And while middle class jobs are often union protected and have a stable market of supply and demand, upper class jobs are often highly specialized and a transition might not be as easy after having lost a job

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
I always thought of the upper class as relying on return on capital rather than a job. The well educated professionals with high incomes that the article talks about are upper-middle class.
j7ake 6y ago
Yes so I think although salaries can vary 2 or 3 times (probably less post tax) the actual job you do can be a major differentiator in lifestyle. An artist doing their own thing making the same amount of money as a person at a corporate job has a fundamentally different lifestyle although salaries may be comparable.
louhike 6y ago
When you're in upper-class, you usually have more money or estate. You also have a better network. You have more probabilities of knowing someone who might help you find a job or start a project. And people will put more easily trust in you. You have better education. So it's far easier to get back on your feet, even though people tend to convince themselves otherwise because it's always hard to hear you have advantages that others do not have.
bluetomcat 6y ago
Upper-class in Europe is mostly old money with inherited real estate and/or family-run companies passed from generation to generation. They never see it as necessary to participate in the arms race of the middle and upper-middle class. Flashy cars and designer clothes are not something they aspire to. You’d rather see them in an old Volvo or Mercedes estate.
- dencodev 6y ago
  That's a very broad generalization that covers millions of people.
raxxorrax 6y ago
The vast majority of employees in the EU are not part of a union, it is around 10 - 15%. They get protection trough legislation from times unions were more common though. Unions make sense for artists since the broad availability of art and entertainment is often hit or miss. Not the best works always win and if there is considerable success, income can get extremely high while others struggle to get by. Especially educational works do get paid poorly. These are essential services compared to another upper middle class manager from a consumer perspective.
- phreeza 6y ago
  At least in Germany you don't have to be a member of the union to benefit from their negotiations. About 50% of employees work under a so-called "Tarif" contract, terms of which get negotiated by unions.
netcan 6y ago
(Also europe.. ireland) I would confirm this take. I would also say that "upper class" in modern european terms, refers to something different then in other times... or possibly in the US. We have a more cultural take on class. It's not just about income. First, our cutoff for "elites" is a lot lower. This is sometimes reflected in proposed laws. For example, when France implemented a wealth tax, they set the cuttoff around €1m. Other laws and proposed laws around europe tend to have a similar take. In US equivalents, thresholds are proposed aropund $50m-$1bn. Here in Ireland, the top thresholds of income tax are near (even below) median full time income... €44k. Also, our public housing system houses around 20% of the population. The quality of housing is better than the lower end of private rentals... which tend to house employees of Google FB, etc. Meanwhile, there's a lot more emphasis on cultural divide here. In the UK, the "anywhere vs somewhere's" is a popular take on modern class division. Anywhere's being internationally oriented, college educated people. Somewhere's being locally oriented. It corresponds to a more evergreen take: professional class vs working class. In both cases, the income gaps are smaller than the cultural gaps. A college graduate working in Google account management for €35k can earn half what a plumber earns, but the class divide is still what it is. This is actually a significant dynamic in Ireland now. We have a lot of middle-income white collar jobs at international tech companies, with questionable long term security. We have a lot of higher paying blue collar jobs, mostly construction adjacent. Often, the economic differences between classes just comes down to neighborhoods, property wealth and accumulated family wealth... not necessarily income. Often, but not always. The lowest 25% income families tend to be distinctly, and proudly working class. The genuinely wealthy tend to be upper class. Class is complicated in europe. It can be quasi-ethnic, with accents, body language and cultural subtleties playing a big role. It doesn't correspond neatly to income.
- viklove 6y ago
  What makes you think it "corresponds neatly to income" in the US? There's economic class, social class, and socio-economic class. These are three different things, and that's also true in the US.
  - netcan 6y ago
    i don't
patrickk 6y ago
> Maybe a nicer neighborhood This one is huge. Trying to afford a decent, spacious (non-luxurious) home with access a small garden, that isn't an hour+ commute from your workplace, is a true luxury especially in any in-demand urban region. Not having to waste hours of your life commuting definitely separates the plebs from the rest.
alexpetralia 6y ago
Eric Weinstein calls this the "elite precariat."

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

I always thought of the upper class as relying on return on capital rather than a job. The well educated professionals with high incomes that the article talks about are upper-middle class.

j7ake 6y ago

Yes so I think although salaries can vary 2 or 3 times (probably less post tax) the actual job you do can be a major differentiator in lifestyle. An artist doing their own thing making the same amount of money as a person at a corporate job has a fundamentally different lifestyle although salaries may be comparable.

louhike 6y ago

When you're in upper-class, you usually have more money or estate. You also have a better network. You have more probabilities of knowing someone who might help you find a job or start a project. And people will put more easily trust in you. You have better education. So it's far easier to get back on your feet, even though people tend to convince themselves otherwise because it's always hard to hear you have advantages that others do not have.

bluetomcat 6y ago

Upper-class in Europe is mostly old money with inherited real estate and/or family-run companies passed from generation to generation. They never see it as necessary to participate in the arms race of the middle and upper-middle class. Flashy cars and designer clothes are not something they aspire to. You’d rather see them in an old Volvo or Mercedes estate.

dencodev 6y ago
That's a very broad generalization that covers millions of people.

raxxorrax 6y ago

The vast majority of employees in the EU are not part of a union, it is around 10 - 15%. They get protection trough legislation from times unions were more common though. Unions make sense for artists since the broad availability of art and entertainment is often hit or miss. Not the best works always win and if there is considerable success, income can get extremely high while others struggle to get by. Especially educational works do get paid poorly. These are essential services compared to another upper middle class manager from a consumer perspective.

phreeza 6y ago
At least in Germany you don't have to be a member of the union to benefit from their negotiations. About 50% of employees work under a so-called "Tarif" contract, terms of which get negotiated by unions.

netcan 6y ago

(Also europe.. ireland) I would confirm this take. I would also say that "upper class" in modern european terms, refers to something different then in other times... or possibly in the US. We have a more cultural take on class. It's not just about income. First, our cutoff for "elites" is a lot lower. This is sometimes reflected in proposed laws. For example, when France implemented a wealth tax, they set the cuttoff around €1m. Other laws and proposed laws around europe tend to have a similar take. In US equivalents, thresholds are proposed aropund $50m-$1bn. Here in Ireland, the top thresholds of income tax are near (even below) median full time income... €44k. Also, our public housing system houses around 20% of the population. The quality of housing is better than the lower end of private rentals... which tend to house employees of Google FB, etc. Meanwhile, there's a lot more emphasis on cultural divide here. In the UK, the "anywhere vs somewhere's" is a popular take on modern class division. Anywhere's being internationally oriented, college educated people. Somewhere's being locally oriented. It corresponds to a more evergreen take: professional class vs working class. In both cases, the income gaps are smaller than the cultural gaps. A college graduate working in Google account management for €35k can earn half what a plumber earns, but the class divide is still what it is. This is actually a significant dynamic in Ireland now. We have a lot of middle-income white collar jobs at international tech companies, with questionable long term security. We have a lot of higher paying blue collar jobs, mostly construction adjacent. Often, the economic differences between classes just comes down to neighborhoods, property wealth and accumulated family wealth... not necessarily income. Often, but not always. The lowest 25% income families tend to be distinctly, and proudly working class. The genuinely wealthy tend to be upper class. Class is complicated in europe. It can be quasi-ethnic, with accents, body language and cultural subtleties playing a big role. It doesn't correspond neatly to income.

viklove 6y ago
What makes you think it "corresponds neatly to income" in the US? There's economic class, social class, and socio-economic class. These are three different things, and that's also true in the US.
- netcan 6y ago
  i don't

patrickk 6y ago

> Maybe a nicer neighborhood This one is huge. Trying to afford a decent, spacious (non-luxurious) home with access a small garden, that isn't an hour+ commute from your workplace, is a true luxury especially in any in-demand urban region. Not having to waste hours of your life commuting definitely separates the plebs from the rest.

alexpetralia 6y ago

Eric Weinstein calls this the "elite precariat."