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> Rather than try to build a search infrastructure from scratch, Neeva instead opted to use Bing's search API for its basic results. So it's another UI over bi

by qqii 6y ago

> Rather than try to build a search infrastructure from scratch, Neeva instead opted to use Bing's search API for its basic results. So it's another UI over bing like duckduckgo? I'm not too optimistic, at the moment there are fundimental issues with how search engines interpret text and rank results.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
RyanShook 6y ago
What’s the point of using Neeva if it’s just going to serve me Bing results with fewer ads?
- nmstoker 6y ago
  Presumably it's a matter of how they combine aspects of the results, focusing on being more useful, as the article explains. A distinct focus isn't just "Bing without ads", in a similar way that Bing isn't just Google with different ads. They can have different focuses, qualities and utilities.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - bad_user 6y ago
    The value of a search engine it's in the size of its index and the ranking it does. The UI is less important. Those 3-4 ads appearing at the top of search results can be filtered out by browser extensions. Bing isn't just Google, because it uses a different index and a different ranking algorithm. The results are vastly different. If a search engine is just a shell over Bing, then there isn't much point in using that over Bing. Note DDG provides some niceties over Bing, plus the pledge that they won't share your searches with them, but you basically have to take their word for it.
- tech-historian 6y ago
  Well, you get to pay for the privilege. That seems to be the difference.
marcell 6y ago
Is DuckDuckGo just a Bing UI? I thought they had their own index.
- quotemstr 6y ago
  Only for their infoboxes. The organic results are just Bing.
  - kevingrahl 6y ago
    That’s not true. DDG has their own crawler and their results are a composite of many different sources of which Bing is one. It’s easy enough to check. I searched my name on both DDG and Bing, the results are completely different.
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      While they do have a crawler (DuckDuckBot) they primarily rely on other search engines the main ones being Bing and Yandex. The fact that they return different results doesn’t mean much, firstly the bing API and web search return slightly different results especially if you use some of the extended parameters, secondly it doesn’t mean that they return results without additional post processing since they can have their own weighting/pageranking algorithms, filters etc. on top of Bing. DDG isn’t just a UI for Bing but their results rely on Bing.
    - corin_ 6y ago
      I do believe your main point is correct, however your easy check doesn't prove it. Even back when DDG did only use Bing/Yahoo data, you'd likely have seen different results for your name depending on what personalised results Bing/Yahoo might show you, or other aspects (such as weighting applied to your location).
    - Kiro 6y ago
      > I searched my name on both DDG and Bing, the results are completely different. Search for "what is my ip" and you will see Bing bot IP in the DDG snippets. https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ > To do that, DuckDuckGo gets its results from over four hundred sources. These include hundreds of vertical sources delivering niche Instant Answers, DuckDuckBot (our crawler) and crowd-sourced sites (like Wikipedia, stored in our answer indexes). We also of course have more traditional links in the search results, which we also source from multiple partners, though most commonly from Bing (and none from Google). In other words, their own crawler and the other 400 sources are used for their Instant Answers and widgets while all "traditional links" (i.e. the search results) come from Bing.
mhaberl 6y ago
DDG is not a UI over Bing https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/?redir=1 https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/?redir=1
- mda 6y ago
  It is mostly.
- skrebbel 6y ago
  It mostly is, though.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  Unless they are maintaining their whole global index, it IS a Ui over Bing. Don't be fooled by their 400+ sources, that stuff just affects things like the answer box
  - leereeves 6y ago
    Comparing the results, in a search for "Neeva", the only results they have in common on the first page are exact name matches and one article from the NY Times: DDG: neeva.co, neeva.co/blog, moneycontrol.com, indiatimes.com, nytimes.com, neeva.tech, neevagroup.com, babycenter.com https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=neeva&atb=v63-1&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=neeva&atb=v63-1&ia=web Bing: neeva.co, nytimes.com, androidauthority.com, medium.com, oflox.com, gomoguides.com, neeva.tech, neevagroup.com https://www.bing.com/search?q=neeva https://www.bing.com/search?q=neeva (I don't use Bing, and DDG isn't supposed to track me, so neither should be personalized results.)
    - norswap 6y ago
      Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Even if DDG is built mostly on top of Bing, the discrepancy would be interesting to explain.
      - skinnymuch 6y ago
yalogin 6y ago
If every other "search engine" is using Bing, is it profitable?

by qqii 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

RyanShook 6y ago

What’s the point of using Neeva if it’s just going to serve me Bing results with fewer ads?

nmstoker 6y ago
Presumably it's a matter of how they combine aspects of the results, focusing on being more useful, as the article explains. A distinct focus isn't just "Bing without ads", in a similar way that Bing isn't just Google with different ads. They can have different focuses, qualities and utilities.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bad_user 6y ago
  The value of a search engine it's in the size of its index and the ranking it does. The UI is less important. Those 3-4 ads appearing at the top of search results can be filtered out by browser extensions. Bing isn't just Google, because it uses a different index and a different ranking algorithm. The results are vastly different. If a search engine is just a shell over Bing, then there isn't much point in using that over Bing. Note DDG provides some niceties over Bing, plus the pledge that they won't share your searches with them, but you basically have to take their word for it.
tech-historian 6y ago
Well, you get to pay for the privilege. That seems to be the difference.

marcell 6y ago

Is DuckDuckGo just a Bing UI? I thought they had their own index.

quotemstr 6y ago
Only for their infoboxes. The organic results are just Bing.
- kevingrahl 6y ago
  That’s not true. DDG has their own crawler and their results are a composite of many different sources of which Bing is one. It’s easy enough to check. I searched my name on both DDG and Bing, the results are completely different.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    While they do have a crawler (DuckDuckBot) they primarily rely on other search engines the main ones being Bing and Yandex. The fact that they return different results doesn’t mean much, firstly the bing API and web search return slightly different results especially if you use some of the extended parameters, secondly it doesn’t mean that they return results without additional post processing since they can have their own weighting/pageranking algorithms, filters etc. on top of Bing. DDG isn’t just a UI for Bing but their results rely on Bing.
  - corin_ 6y ago
    I do believe your main point is correct, however your easy check doesn't prove it. Even back when DDG did only use Bing/Yahoo data, you'd likely have seen different results for your name depending on what personalised results Bing/Yahoo might show you, or other aspects (such as weighting applied to your location).
  - Kiro 6y ago
    > I searched my name on both DDG and Bing, the results are completely different. Search for "what is my ip" and you will see Bing bot IP in the DDG snippets. https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ > To do that, DuckDuckGo gets its results from over four hundred sources. These include hundreds of vertical sources delivering niche Instant Answers, DuckDuckBot (our crawler) and crowd-sourced sites (like Wikipedia, stored in our answer indexes). We also of course have more traditional links in the search results, which we also source from multiple partners, though most commonly from Bing (and none from Google). In other words, their own crawler and the other 400 sources are used for their Instant Answers and widgets while all "traditional links" (i.e. the search results) come from Bing.

mhaberl 6y ago

DDG is not a UI over Bing https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/?redir=1 https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/?redir=1

mda 6y ago
It is mostly.
skrebbel 6y ago
It mostly is, though.
kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
Unless they are maintaining their whole global index, it IS a Ui over Bing. Don't be fooled by their 400+ sources, that stuff just affects things like the answer box
- leereeves 6y ago
  Comparing the results, in a search for "Neeva", the only results they have in common on the first page are exact name matches and one article from the NY Times: DDG: neeva.co, neeva.co/blog, moneycontrol.com, indiatimes.com, nytimes.com, neeva.tech, neevagroup.com, babycenter.com https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=neeva&atb=v63-1&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=neeva&atb=v63-1&ia=web Bing: neeva.co, nytimes.com, androidauthority.com, medium.com, oflox.com, gomoguides.com, neeva.tech, neevagroup.com https://www.bing.com/search?q=neeva https://www.bing.com/search?q=neeva (I don't use Bing, and DDG isn't supposed to track me, so neither should be personalized results.)
  - norswap 6y ago
    Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Even if DDG is built mostly on top of Bing, the discrepancy would be interesting to explain.
    - skinnymuch 6y ago

yalogin 6y ago

If every other "search engine" is using Bing, is it profitable?