6 ms·

Industry kinda already has. Products launched. Teams managed. A candidate's publication record is a conversation starter during interviews, but I feel like year

Industry kinda already has. Products launched. Teams managed. A candidate's publication record is a conversation starter during interviews, but I feel like years of experience at a company working on launching a successful project is a much more valuable currency.

saagarjha 6y ago
For getting a job, maybe…industry isn't everything.
- nomel 6y ago
  I think his point is that practical experience and a track record of proven, successful, outcomes are more useful for predicting future outcome.
throwaway2048 6y ago
These metrics can just as easily be gamed, see how all the glory at Google goes towards launching exciting projects, that then immediately get put into stasis, then canceled.
chrisseaton 6y ago
A good PhD is launching a successful project.
rumanator 6y ago
> Industry kinda already has. Products launched. This suggestion is so detached from both the problem and the very nature of academia that it's straight-out laughable. I mean, what do product launches have to do building knowledge on the state of the art, identifying a novel idea, doing the iterative work to refine the idea, and finally document it to the public? Product launches at best require you to manage people and expectations. Do you honestly believe that a guy who launched a product is more qualified to drive science forward than a PhD with an outstanding academic track record just because your PM had a knack to cut corners, descope requirements, and pass the buck to underlings? Because that's the bulk of the job of all PMs I ever met, including from FANGs. Your suggestion is the poster child of the old mantra "if the only tool you have is a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail".
- nostrebored 6y ago
  The private sector does do research, and for RoI /it actually has to work/. Academia is a cesspit of politics and dishonesty. Forming the most effective cartels, sensationalizing your results, and being well networked with other academics is not aligned with getting results on actual problems.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > The private sector does do research, and for RoI /it actually has to work/. The private sector does research with researchers, not product managers. The process is exactly the same. It's not a public vs private thing. It's a research vs production thing. Research is open-ended and iterative and exploratory. Product design is close-ended, focused, and with hard requirements. Research has zero to do with product management, and you don't change the nature of the problem by pretending that a scientific discovery is a product expecting to be launched. > Academia is a cesspit of politics and dishonesty. Oh awesome. Have you ever did any corporate work? Because if you believe that academia suffers from this problem but corporations don't then I have a few bridges I'd like to sell you. At least in academia you do need to have your publications to back you up. In corporate environments all you have is the cesspool part.
    - anonthrowaway3 6y ago
      Many companies now hire PhDs to do production work, and it ends up being a complete disaster. There is not much need for pure researchers in most of industry. And in my experience teams with these academic data "scientists" are far worse cesspools than normal engineering teams who deliver actual products and value. Also, what are publications supposed to show? They are often a negative indicator of actual capability. Ever interviewed a data scientist who looks good on paper with tons of publications who can't even write a for loop? I have.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- ktaylora 6y ago
jariel 6y ago
" Products launched. Teams managed." This definitely has zero to do with quality research being published, and even in startup land, those things are nice to have but still don't prove anything, unless they were the directing agents of those initiatives.
jjoonathan 6y ago
Those are even easier to hack. Here's the result of measuring by projects launched: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/

saagarjha 6y ago

For getting a job, maybe…industry isn't everything.

nomel 6y ago
I think his point is that practical experience and a track record of proven, successful, outcomes are more useful for predicting future outcome.

throwaway2048 6y ago

These metrics can just as easily be gamed, see how all the glory at Google goes towards launching exciting projects, that then immediately get put into stasis, then canceled.

chrisseaton 6y ago

A good PhD is launching a successful project.

rumanator 6y ago

> Industry kinda already has. Products launched. This suggestion is so detached from both the problem and the very nature of academia that it's straight-out laughable. I mean, what do product launches have to do building knowledge on the state of the art, identifying a novel idea, doing the iterative work to refine the idea, and finally document it to the public? Product launches at best require you to manage people and expectations. Do you honestly believe that a guy who launched a product is more qualified to drive science forward than a PhD with an outstanding academic track record just because your PM had a knack to cut corners, descope requirements, and pass the buck to underlings? Because that's the bulk of the job of all PMs I ever met, including from FANGs. Your suggestion is the poster child of the old mantra "if the only tool you have is a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail".

nostrebored 6y ago
The private sector does do research, and for RoI /it actually has to work/. Academia is a cesspit of politics and dishonesty. Forming the most effective cartels, sensationalizing your results, and being well networked with other academics is not aligned with getting results on actual problems.
- rumanator 6y ago
  > The private sector does do research, and for RoI /it actually has to work/. The private sector does research with researchers, not product managers. The process is exactly the same. It's not a public vs private thing. It's a research vs production thing. Research is open-ended and iterative and exploratory. Product design is close-ended, focused, and with hard requirements. Research has zero to do with product management, and you don't change the nature of the problem by pretending that a scientific discovery is a product expecting to be launched. > Academia is a cesspit of politics and dishonesty. Oh awesome. Have you ever did any corporate work? Because if you believe that academia suffers from this problem but corporations don't then I have a few bridges I'd like to sell you. At least in academia you do need to have your publications to back you up. In corporate environments all you have is the cesspool part.
  - anonthrowaway3 6y ago
    Many companies now hire PhDs to do production work, and it ends up being a complete disaster. There is not much need for pure researchers in most of industry. And in my experience teams with these academic data "scientists" are far worse cesspools than normal engineering teams who deliver actual products and value. Also, what are publications supposed to show? They are often a negative indicator of actual capability. Ever interviewed a data scientist who looks good on paper with tons of publications who can't even write a for loop? I have.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
ktaylora 6y ago

jariel 6y ago

" Products launched. Teams managed." This definitely has zero to do with quality research being published, and even in startup land, those things are nice to have but still don't prove anything, unless they were the directing agents of those initiatives.

jjoonathan 6y ago

Those are even easier to hack. Here's the result of measuring by projects launched: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/