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Geez, that's brutal. I'm glad I'm seeing this....it never crossed my mind that this sort of thing would be something that might get built into headphones. If I

Geez, that's brutal. I'm glad I'm seeing this....it never crossed my mind that this sort of thing would be something that might get built into headphones. If I want to avoid this sort of thing, I'm thinking / hoping it's sufficient to simply avoid headphones that require an app. Does that seem right?

monksy 6y ago
I mean you can't really avoid it. It's pushed on to you and theres no clear understanding about how tied the headphones are until you buy it. The WH-1000MX are very good headphones, but sony gonna shit the bed. (PSN anyone)
- jmole 6y ago
  They're a company that makes a lot of decisions from the viewpoint of participants in a high-trust society like Japan. Many times, those viewpoints don't translate well to other markets.
  - monksy 6y ago
    That trust is hugely misplaced. They frequently make terrible decisions that negatively affect others. - Them being hugely defensive about the fan backlash over Tlou2 https://www.altchar.com/game-news/sony-contacts-website-over-negative-the-last-of-us-part-2-review-aMeDH5F1BrLB https://www.altchar.com/game-news/sony-contacts-website-over... - They've removed early release credentials from reviewers who give sour reviews - The shit return policy for the digital only games - The way they are trying to push digital only etc. I realize Sony isn't the only one doing this but with every iteration it feels like they are trying to be as crap as possible.
  - taneq 6y ago
    I don't know if it's high trust as much as it's authoritarian. You do what you're told by the company and that's that.
- mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
  Hmmm....well, I'm at least aware of the issue now based on this conversation and will definitely at least try to determine whether it applies to any of my future purchases.
josteink 6y ago
> If I want to avoid this sort of thing, I'm thinking / hoping it's sufficient to simply avoid headphones that require an app. Or just get one with a good old 3.5mm jack. Beyer Dynamic, AKG and Shure have several options much cheaper than these Bose or Sony headsets which still give you at least 10x the audio-performance. For headsets, if you care about usability, portability, longevity and performance, wired is still the no-brainer choice.
- p1esk 6y ago
  Good luck with this if you want state of the art in noise canceling
  - josteink 6y ago
    I’ve had the best heat headphones Bose has to offer in the Quiet Comfort series and to me this “state of the art noise cancellation” sounds like artefact- and distortion-inducing noise. I’ve returned them and replaced them with much better, naturally damping, closed head-phones. And the audio is so much better, at a fraction of the cost. Noise cancellation in the hifi-space is just snake oil, and I’m not having it.
    - andrewflnr 6y ago
      Does... does anyone actually think noise-cancelling is for increasing audio quality? I always thought it was just for handling obnoxiously noisy environments, like airplanes, screaming children, etc.
      - mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
        No one who's thinking through how it works, which is by picking up the ambient noise and then modifying the output to include the inverse on top of whatever you're listening to.
      - _delirium 6y ago
        Aside, but noise cancelling (at least what's currently on the market) doesn't really do much for screaming children. It only handles relatively constant noise well, ideally low/mid-frequency constant noise. Great at silencing stuff like airplane engines, wind, HVAC hum, freeway rumble, etc. But not very effective for people talking, crying babies, car horns, ambulance sirens, slamming doors, etc.
squarefoot 6y ago
"I'm thinking / hoping it's sufficient to simply avoid headphones that require an app." Every effing time they convince users to install an app they magically have a tool to steal peoples personal data. Not just headphones: the kids toy drone can be controlled using an app from the cellphone? The security camera just purchased doesn't use standard protocols over a web browser but needs its own app? The IoT system doesn't use standard protocols as well but forces the use of their app? Bad, bad and bad! And so on for every piece of hardware that needs a proprietary app that -betting all my horses on that- will ask for full permissions to access everything. In this context, headphones are among the easily replaceable accessories with secure and better sounding ones. Just get wired ones and avoid architectures that force the use of wireless phones just to make a bigger business out of a misfeature.
- mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
  I am aware of these issues and yet also sometimes prefer to have headphones without wires.
  - nitemice 6y ago
    You could get a 'dumb' bluetooth adaptor for your wired-but-cable-changable headphones. e.g. https://thebtunes.com/ https://thebtunes.com/ Or you could just get some basic noise-isolating bluetooth headphones. It sounds like most/all of these headphones that spy on people are ones with active noise cancelling.
Polylactic_acid 6y ago
You have to do prior research. Bose don't tell you on the box that the headphones are bricked until you connect it to the app to do an update before it will allow you to connect it as a normal bluetooth device.
taneq 6y ago
> I'm thinking / hoping it's sufficient to simply avoid headphones that require an app. I'd hope so - as far as I know there's no way for a Bluetooth headset device to get internet access via the thing it's paired with. It's getting harder and harder to be confident about this kind of thing, though.

monksy 6y ago

I mean you can't really avoid it. It's pushed on to you and theres no clear understanding about how tied the headphones are until you buy it. The WH-1000MX are very good headphones, but sony gonna shit the bed. (PSN anyone)

jmole 6y ago
They're a company that makes a lot of decisions from the viewpoint of participants in a high-trust society like Japan. Many times, those viewpoints don't translate well to other markets.
- monksy 6y ago
  That trust is hugely misplaced. They frequently make terrible decisions that negatively affect others. - Them being hugely defensive about the fan backlash over Tlou2 https://www.altchar.com/game-news/sony-contacts-website-over-negative-the-last-of-us-part-2-review-aMeDH5F1BrLB https://www.altchar.com/game-news/sony-contacts-website-over... - They've removed early release credentials from reviewers who give sour reviews - The shit return policy for the digital only games - The way they are trying to push digital only etc. I realize Sony isn't the only one doing this but with every iteration it feels like they are trying to be as crap as possible.
- taneq 6y ago
  I don't know if it's high trust as much as it's authoritarian. You do what you're told by the company and that's that.
mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
Hmmm....well, I'm at least aware of the issue now based on this conversation and will definitely at least try to determine whether it applies to any of my future purchases.

josteink 6y ago

> If I want to avoid this sort of thing, I'm thinking / hoping it's sufficient to simply avoid headphones that require an app. Or just get one with a good old 3.5mm jack. Beyer Dynamic, AKG and Shure have several options much cheaper than these Bose or Sony headsets which still give you at least 10x the audio-performance. For headsets, if you care about usability, portability, longevity and performance, wired is still the no-brainer choice.

p1esk 6y ago
Good luck with this if you want state of the art in noise canceling
- josteink 6y ago
  I’ve had the best heat headphones Bose has to offer in the Quiet Comfort series and to me this “state of the art noise cancellation” sounds like artefact- and distortion-inducing noise. I’ve returned them and replaced them with much better, naturally damping, closed head-phones. And the audio is so much better, at a fraction of the cost. Noise cancellation in the hifi-space is just snake oil, and I’m not having it.
  - andrewflnr 6y ago
    Does... does anyone actually think noise-cancelling is for increasing audio quality? I always thought it was just for handling obnoxiously noisy environments, like airplanes, screaming children, etc.
    - mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
      No one who's thinking through how it works, which is by picking up the ambient noise and then modifying the output to include the inverse on top of whatever you're listening to.
    - _delirium 6y ago
      Aside, but noise cancelling (at least what's currently on the market) doesn't really do much for screaming children. It only handles relatively constant noise well, ideally low/mid-frequency constant noise. Great at silencing stuff like airplane engines, wind, HVAC hum, freeway rumble, etc. But not very effective for people talking, crying babies, car horns, ambulance sirens, slamming doors, etc.

squarefoot 6y ago

"I'm thinking / hoping it's sufficient to simply avoid headphones that require an app." Every effing time they convince users to install an app they magically have a tool to steal peoples personal data. Not just headphones: the kids toy drone can be controlled using an app from the cellphone? The security camera just purchased doesn't use standard protocols over a web browser but needs its own app? The IoT system doesn't use standard protocols as well but forces the use of their app? Bad, bad and bad! And so on for every piece of hardware that needs a proprietary app that -betting all my horses on that- will ask for full permissions to access everything. In this context, headphones are among the easily replaceable accessories with secure and better sounding ones. Just get wired ones and avoid architectures that force the use of wireless phones just to make a bigger business out of a misfeature.

mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
I am aware of these issues and yet also sometimes prefer to have headphones without wires.
- nitemice 6y ago
  You could get a 'dumb' bluetooth adaptor for your wired-but-cable-changable headphones. e.g. https://thebtunes.com/ https://thebtunes.com/ Or you could just get some basic noise-isolating bluetooth headphones. It sounds like most/all of these headphones that spy on people are ones with active noise cancelling.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago

You have to do prior research. Bose don't tell you on the box that the headphones are bricked until you connect it to the app to do an update before it will allow you to connect it as a normal bluetooth device.

taneq 6y ago

> I'm thinking / hoping it's sufficient to simply avoid headphones that require an app. I'd hope so - as far as I know there's no way for a Bluetooth headset device to get internet access via the thing it's paired with. It's getting harder and harder to be confident about this kind of thing, though.