4 ms·

> I think it's easy for everyone here to estimate the actual amount of malfeasance by taken the number of times they've seen police behave inappropriately (doz

by mcherm 6y ago

> I think it's easy for everyone here to estimate the actual amount of malfeasance by taken the number of times they've seen police behave inappropriately (dozens) and divide it by the number of complaints they've made (zero). Except that this approach is NOT useful because police malfeasance is NOT distributed evenly. For example, over my lifetime I have only seen one case I can recall of police misbehavior, and I'm not sure that one even rises to the level of "malfeasance". Perhaps if I were black and lived in New York City (where "stop and frisk" was an official policy for years) I would have a very different impression. It is for exactly this reason that it is important to use actual statistics instead of personal anecdotes.

dexterdog 6y ago
Complaining about stop and frisk would not have been a valid complaint since it was policy at the time.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Depends on what the complaint is about. Remember that stop-and-frisk didn't end because of any changes to the law or formal policies. In principle, police were never allowed to stop someone without reasonable suspicion; in principle, the standards for NYPD police stops are the same now as they were a decade ago.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
Statistics aside for a minute. Every single interaction I’ve had with the police personally has been worthy of complaint. He’ll, I’ll even complain when I see them take their side arms in to the bakery for lunch, here in Launceston Tasmania. Who is so insecure they need a gun with their croissant. Additionally, when the police prosecutor charged me with drug trafficking on evidence they knew was collected illegally, and 27 months later they had to drop the charges, there’s no simple way to have the officers involved and the police prosecutor charged, or even reprimanded in any way, for knowingly contravening the law. Those 27 months weren’t real comfortable for me, but ok I’ll wear that, I did have the drugs in my possession, my guilt is indisputable, but my privacy, in that case, is more important than the intentional malfeasance of these institutionalised bullies, and the courts here, at the time, agreed. To summaries, anyone who can act with impunity deserves constant derision until we see real change. The police need to be trained that escalating violence isn’t the only path to working in the community, and that even when they honestly believe they caught someone in the act, they need to be treating that human being with kindness and respect. What I’m saying is, if the police can’t behave, and they presently aren’t behaving, then another agency needs to be created that sends agentes out with the police to act as a public advocate, to protect the rights of everyone, and guide the police in their responsibilities.
- itronitron 6y ago
  If the police are carrying a gun while on duty, then it is safer to carry it with them into the bakery rather than leave it unattended in a vehicle from which it could be stolen. Whether they need the gun in the first place is debatable however.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    I agree with both your points.
- DenisM 6y ago
  > Who is so insecure they need a gun with their croissant. Maybe these guys: ... four police officers of Lakewood, Washington were fatally shot at the Forza Coffee shop ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lakewood_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lakewood_shooting
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    Those officers were armed?
  - majormajor 6y ago
    This is an example of the whole classic theory with "I need my gun because criminals will get guns regardless" 2nd Amendment justifications: no gun will save you from someone who wants to shoot you before you have a chance to react. Escalation is not a logical policy.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
      That’s my question. Looks like the perp got shot once, but the cops still died, so how is that example a counter argument?
int_19h 6y ago
The actual statistics are not available, because the police unions are fighting tooth and nail to prevent release of any and all data that could be used to compile it. This case is a typical example. This, in and of itself, tells volumes about what that statistics would show if it were available. But even anecdotes are telling. The ones that are most telling are the anecdotes of whistleblower cops, and specifically how their colleagues treat them after. You'll quickly notice a pattern - as soon as they interfere with one "bad apple", pretty much the entire PD/SD starts actively obstructing them, and it can get pretty extreme. To see just how extreme, and just how many people can get involved in such a witch hunt, look up Adrian Schoolcraft.

by mcherm 6y ago

dexterdog 6y ago

Complaining about stop and frisk would not have been a valid complaint since it was policy at the time.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Depends on what the complaint is about. Remember that stop-and-frisk didn't end because of any changes to the law or formal policies. In principle, police were never allowed to stop someone without reasonable suspicion; in principle, the standards for NYPD police stops are the same now as they were a decade ago.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

Statistics aside for a minute. Every single interaction I’ve had with the police personally has been worthy of complaint. He’ll, I’ll even complain when I see them take their side arms in to the bakery for lunch, here in Launceston Tasmania. Who is so insecure they need a gun with their croissant. Additionally, when the police prosecutor charged me with drug trafficking on evidence they knew was collected illegally, and 27 months later they had to drop the charges, there’s no simple way to have the officers involved and the police prosecutor charged, or even reprimanded in any way, for knowingly contravening the law. Those 27 months weren’t real comfortable for me, but ok I’ll wear that, I did have the drugs in my possession, my guilt is indisputable, but my privacy, in that case, is more important than the intentional malfeasance of these institutionalised bullies, and the courts here, at the time, agreed. To summaries, anyone who can act with impunity deserves constant derision until we see real change. The police need to be trained that escalating violence isn’t the only path to working in the community, and that even when they honestly believe they caught someone in the act, they need to be treating that human being with kindness and respect. What I’m saying is, if the police can’t behave, and they presently aren’t behaving, then another agency needs to be created that sends agentes out with the police to act as a public advocate, to protect the rights of everyone, and guide the police in their responsibilities.

itronitron 6y ago
If the police are carrying a gun while on duty, then it is safer to carry it with them into the bakery rather than leave it unattended in a vehicle from which it could be stolen. Whether they need the gun in the first place is debatable however.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  I agree with both your points.
DenisM 6y ago
> Who is so insecure they need a gun with their croissant. Maybe these guys: ... four police officers of Lakewood, Washington were fatally shot at the Forza Coffee shop ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lakewood_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lakewood_shooting
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  Those officers were armed?
- majormajor 6y ago
  This is an example of the whole classic theory with "I need my gun because criminals will get guns regardless" 2nd Amendment justifications: no gun will save you from someone who wants to shoot you before you have a chance to react. Escalation is not a logical policy.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    That’s my question. Looks like the perp got shot once, but the cops still died, so how is that example a counter argument?

int_19h 6y ago

The actual statistics are not available, because the police unions are fighting tooth and nail to prevent release of any and all data that could be used to compile it. This case is a typical example. This, in and of itself, tells volumes about what that statistics would show if it were available. But even anecdotes are telling. The ones that are most telling are the anecdotes of whistleblower cops, and specifically how their colleagues treat them after. You'll quickly notice a pattern - as soon as they interfere with one "bad apple", pretty much the entire PD/SD starts actively obstructing them, and it can get pretty extreme. To see just how extreme, and just how many people can get involved in such a witch hunt, look up Adrian Schoolcraft.