11 ms·
That seems like hysteria. Yes, birds can potentially carry bird flu. Also, Chinese culture is more open-minded about animal consumption than USA culture and he
by sukilot 6y ago
That seems like hysteria. Yes, birds can potentially carry bird flu. Also, Chinese culture is more open-minded about animal consumption than USA culture and health safety laws. Culture clash is more likely explanation than bio warfare.
If you want to smuggle bird flu into USA, are you really going to do it in a bag of whole dead birds, and not some processed form that is more convenient and less suspicious?
- modeless 6y agoWe're in the middle of a global pandemic quite possibly caused by Chinese people consuming animals that shouldn't be consumed. "Open minded" is not the right description for this behavior.
- Orochikaku 6y ago>animals that shouldn't be consumed Implying there are 'correct' animals to consume
- Natsu 6y agoSome meats are associated with disease (including those eaten in western countries, like trichinosis from pork) and others are not.
- modeless 6y agoThere are definitely incorrect animals to consume. I have no problem stating that it is wrong to consume animals from wild populations of species that harbor viruses potentially capable of infecting humans and causing a global pandemic. Also endangered species. If that's controversial, well, it shouldn't be.
- coronasaurus 6y ago> infecting humans and causing a global pandemic Kinda like the swine flu?
- modeless 6y agoThat's why we should only consume pigs raised in captivity with no exposure to wild populations. If that's where you get your bats or pangolins from, and you actually have enforcement and verification of that, then no problem. (Except that pangolins are endangered of course.)
- jdmichal 6y agoThis strikes me as a first-world privileged thing, similar to how Europe built its industrial revolution on coal but now tries to prevent others from doing the same thing. Even in the US we eat domesticated livestock (cattle), cultivated but not domesticated livestock (bison), and entirely wild animals (deer). Any of these could vector a novel illness to humans.
- modeless 6y agoI'd be fine with banning consumption of wild deer, for example.
- carl_dr 6y agoAbout 350,000 deer are culled in the UK each year, the population is actively managed in many places of the country for various reasons [1]. Because of this, venison is not uncommon in our supermarkets. Should we just destroy the corpses instead? [1] https://www.bds.org.uk/index.php/advice-education/why-manage-deer https://www.bds.org.uk/index.php/advice-education/why-manage...
- modeless 6y agoYes, if the risk of transmitting pandemic causing viruses to humans is as high as for bats.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mtgp1000 6y agoNot all animal species carry the same risk. This isn't about privilege - or at least not anymore. Mainland Chinese learned to eat anything and everything that moved after food shortages and famines caused by e.g. the four pests and such. This is cultural. as are the unsanitary conditions at wet markets, and completely unscientific "traditional medicine" and the common notion that live beings taste better if tortured before death. Stop bending over backwards to excuse antisocial behavior. Not all cultural practices are positive and need to be celebrated.
- rayhendricks 6y agoPretty much any animal except pangolins and bats that does not carry COVID & friends...
- factotvm 6y agoI’m curious to know if you think the animals the west consume which cause disease are satisfactory.
- modeless 6y agoNot if they are from wild populations, or raised in a way that they could be exposed to viruses from wild populations, or if they are endangered species.
- factotvm 6y agoI’m not sure being wild is a good indicator. I would think the opposite might be true wherein industrial farming and close quarters would cause more disease, just like how we talk about population density and covid-19. If you aren’t exposed to others, disease can’t spread. For instance, H1N1 didn’t start in the wild. And it didn’t start with an exotic animal. But it was a global pandemic. The only position you can safely hold is to not eat meat. A weaker position could be around the sanitation and care of stock and its preparation. But what you eat doesn’t matter, be it pig or dog or squirrel or bat.
- Dylan16807 6y agoI'd say that capturing wild animals, then keeping them in cramped unsanitary conditions, along with other species, is the worst possible option for disease. Industrial farming only does one of those three.
- factotvm 6y agoThat's a bit like the fallacy of relative privation: Because what the west does isn't as bad, they aren't culpable. Again, there was a global pandemic caused by pig farming just 11 short years ago, and everybody is still eating bacon.
- josephcsible 6y ago
- xsmasher 6y agoSwine flu came from pigs, bird flu from birds; both still eaten in backward parts of the west.
- hotpockets 6y agoCan I just say, people have been eating bats for millenia, and there's never been a global pandemic arising from bat eating in recorded history. In fact, in recent history, there's never been a definite zoonotic global pandemic even 1/10th as serious as covid. Swine flu and Bird Flu weren't close in severity, and came from eating common farmed animals. Perhaps eating certain animals should be curtailed (I'm no expert) as long as it doesn't result in low protein intake. But, the anti-China sentiment is xenophobic.
- walrus01 6y agoThe 2014/2015 Ebola crisis in West Africa has also been definitively traced to people eating bats. There's biological reasons why bats are reservoirs of viruses that are not harmful to themselves, but to many other mammals.
- stareatgoats 6y ago> There's biological reasons why bats are reservoirs of viruses Interesting. Source?
- walrus01 6y agoSee references linked here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_virome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_virome
- RaiausderDose 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_virome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_virome https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1539106/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1539106/ https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200210144854.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200210144854.h... https://www.the-scientist.com/notebook/why-bats-make-such-good-viral-hosts-64251 https://www.the-scientist.com/notebook/why-bats-make-such-go...
- hotpockets 6y agoBut not a global pandemic, and I'm guessing less serious than swine flu and bird flu, which we still eat.
- lowatt 6y agoUnfortunately there is no universal golden rule on what "should" be eaten or not. Especially when you are hungry and there isn't many choices. If you didn't die or get sick, you might choose to continue eating a "weird food" because they taste good, even when you have other choices. It's bizarre to Americans that _some_ Chinese are eating bats[1] and snakes[2]. It's bizarre to Chinese that _some_ Americans are eating alligators[3][4], bears and frogs. It is human nature to explore and try new things including animals for food. If one has known better, maybe it's better to educate others what are good/bad food sources, with proofs. Mutual discrimination based on sensational news and locally-biased "common sense" are not making the world a better place. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_as_food https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_as_food [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_soup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_soup [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_meat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_meat [4] https://youtu.be/V-mJ0UWfxno?t=266 https://youtu.be/V-mJ0UWfxno?t=266
- modeless 6y agoThere are different levels of risk. It's not all the same. I would be just fine with banning consumption of alligators, bears, or frogs if the risk is assessed to be as high as for bats.
- perl4ever 6y agoI thought customs trying to control biological materials ("meats, fruits, vegetables, plants, seeds, soil, animals, as well as plant and animal products") coming into a country was a thing, long before present events. Authorities get really uptight about invasive species and whatnot. Maybe groundless talk of biowarfare is "hysteria" but regulating biological materials going across borders is the norm as far as I know.
- dokem 6y ago> Chinese culture is more open-minded about animal consumption You mean like how pedophiles are more sexually open minded?