5 ms·

It’s called apposition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition

by jcfields 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zapzupnz 6y ago
Thanks for pointing that out. I added it to my comment, credited to you.
slg 6y ago
I wonder if the seemingly declining popularity of the oxford comma is related to a lack of knowledge of the use of non-restrictive appositives. Because your knowledge of the latter is what makes the use of the Oxford comma important to the classic phrase "We invited the two strippers, JFK and Stalin."
- ghaff 6y ago
  I don’t see declining usage. It’s never been AP style which you see in a lot of newspapers and press releases but not elsewhere. It’s OK with AP but mostly if it would be otherwise confusing.
  - slg 6y ago
    It has seemed to me that the anti-Oxford comma crowd has grown in recent years. Although you questioning it makes me reconsider. It is possible social media has increased by exposure to the personal writing and opinions of people who were already against it. Like you mention, it is against the AP guide that journalists are generally taught to follow. And they are much more likely to tweet and anti-Oxford comma screed than write an article on it.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      I'm at least a half-time professional writer and essentially all the writers I know are pro-Oxford comma--including ones who have to follow AP style for all or part of their day job. And, again, to clarify AP a bit. AP doesn't say you can't use an Oxford comma but that you should only use it if the sentence could otherwise be misconstrued, e.g. the "We invited the strippers, JFK and Stalin" that Oxford comma fans like to cite.
tkgally 6y ago
The New Yorker is particularly fussy about including commas for nonrestrictive apposition, even when there is no possibility of a restrictive interpretation. For example: "When he died, in 2004, his books and exhibitions were too numerous to count, and his magazine work had been published all over the world in the best publications." [0] The copyeditors seem to think that writing "When he died in 2004" would imply that he had died not only in 2004 but also in another year. [0] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/photo-booth/when-in-berlin-part-i https://www.newyorker.com/culture/photo-booth/when-in-berlin...
tzs 6y ago
It’s also the main cause of ambiguity in lists. This can be almost completely avoided by simply using parenthesis or dashes instead of commas to set off an appositive phrase and always using an Oxford comma. Most grammarians seem to approve the use of parenthesis or dashes that way, so I’m not sure why commas are the most popular.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I'm guessing it's because they're seen as less distracting/invasive than the others while still getting the job done. Personally, I use parentheses and em-dashes a fair bit. But I do often find myself often going back and removing a number of them when I've overdone it.

It’s called apposition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

zapzupnz 6y ago

Thanks for pointing that out. I added it to my comment, credited to you.

slg 6y ago

I wonder if the seemingly declining popularity of the oxford comma is related to a lack of knowledge of the use of non-restrictive appositives. Because your knowledge of the latter is what makes the use of the Oxford comma important to the classic phrase "We invited the two strippers, JFK and Stalin."

ghaff 6y ago
I don’t see declining usage. It’s never been AP style which you see in a lot of newspapers and press releases but not elsewhere. It’s OK with AP but mostly if it would be otherwise confusing.
- slg 6y ago
  It has seemed to me that the anti-Oxford comma crowd has grown in recent years. Although you questioning it makes me reconsider. It is possible social media has increased by exposure to the personal writing and opinions of people who were already against it. Like you mention, it is against the AP guide that journalists are generally taught to follow. And they are much more likely to tweet and anti-Oxford comma screed than write an article on it.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    I'm at least a half-time professional writer and essentially all the writers I know are pro-Oxford comma--including ones who have to follow AP style for all or part of their day job. And, again, to clarify AP a bit. AP doesn't say you can't use an Oxford comma but that you should only use it if the sentence could otherwise be misconstrued, e.g. the "We invited the strippers, JFK and Stalin" that Oxford comma fans like to cite.

tkgally 6y ago

The New Yorker is particularly fussy about including commas for nonrestrictive apposition, even when there is no possibility of a restrictive interpretation. For example: "When he died, in 2004, his books and exhibitions were too numerous to count, and his magazine work had been published all over the world in the best publications." [0] The copyeditors seem to think that writing "When he died in 2004" would imply that he had died not only in 2004 but also in another year. [0] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/photo-booth/when-in-berlin-part-i https://www.newyorker.com/culture/photo-booth/when-in-berlin...

tzs 6y ago

It’s also the main cause of ambiguity in lists. This can be almost completely avoided by simply using parenthesis or dashes instead of commas to set off an appositive phrase and always using an Oxford comma. Most grammarians seem to approve the use of parenthesis or dashes that way, so I’m not sure why commas are the most popular.

ghaff 6y ago
I'm guessing it's because they're seen as less distracting/invasive than the others while still getting the job done. Personally, I use parentheses and em-dashes a fair bit. But I do often find myself often going back and removing a number of them when I've overdone it.