6 ms·

You’re right, but, at the same time this is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We have millions of people out of work whom we could be paying to do contact traci

You’re right, but, at the same time this is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We have millions of people out of work whom we could be paying to do contact tracing, and, yet, we don’t. Even if the states are low on funds, the federal government could either subsidize or fully fund such programs. Doing so would be a huge step toward dealing with COVID-19, as well as providing a partial solution to all the unemployment that’s been created by the lockdowns. Why don’t we do this? It’s a jobs program, not an entitlement, so, theoretically, Republicans should eat it up. And, I don’t see Democrats opposing it, either. Instead, we’re pointing fingers, calling it the “China flu,” or the “Trump virus,” while over 130k have died, and many more get infected by superspreaders who could easily have been identified and isolated were there enough contact tracing in place. Even California, which I thought was handling the crisis well at first, has faltered by prematurely reopening sectors of the economy. I’d like to say it’s a lack of leadership, but I think it’s more that our leaders are serving interests that are not ours. This is a nonpartisan statement — Trump is to blame for a lot of it, but Democratic governors and mayors, by and large, haven’t stepped up, either. It’s time to ask cui bono? It’s time to really drain the swamp, instead of continuing to vote for the mosquitoes who suck the life out of the American people.

liuliu 6y ago
You cannot have massive job program without state financial going into red. And states have to balance their book every year.
- lukevdp 6y ago
  Is that actually a thing that states aren’t allowed to borrow?
  - ralph84 6y ago
    State and local governments are allowed to borrow and they do quite a lot of it. The difference is they don’t have a guaranteed buyer for their debt like the federal government does with the federal reserve.
    - kyboren 6y ago
      > The difference is they don’t have a guaranteed buyer for their debt like the federal government does with the federal reserve. That is no longer true: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/muni.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/muni.htm On April 8, 2020, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (the Board), by the unanimous vote of its five members and with the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, authorized the establishment and operation of the Municipal Liquidity Facility (MLF) under section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act (12 U.S.C. § 343(3)). The MLF is intended to support lending to state, city, and county governments. Under the MLF, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (Reserve Bank) will commit to lend on a recourse basis to a special purpose vehicle (SPV). The SPV will purchase eligible notes directly from eligible issuers at the time of issuance. [...] The Department of the Treasury, using funds appropriated to the Exchange Stabilization Fund under section 4027 of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act), will make a $35 billion equity investment in the SPV in connection with the MLF. https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/municipal-liquidity-facility-4-16-20.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/municipal-...
  - projektfu 6y ago
    States borrow but almost all must balance the budget. When they borrow it should be a project, not to cover a shortfall. This is not a federal requirement but a restriction the states put on themselves. https://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-balanced-budget-requirements.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-balanced-b...
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      How many of those states have emergency powers provisions that would allow them to override that restriction?
      - projektfu 6y ago
        I don’t have any special insight beyond what’s in the article. This is likely why state governments have been talking about federal aid.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Which is why I mentioned the federal government could have, and should have stepped in.
Arainach 6y ago
States and cities can't run deficits and so can't create the funding for this out of thin air. Republicans have campaigned for years on a platform that "Government doesn't work" and have been remarkably committed to providing evidence for that claim when elected. Both hiring people and solving a crisis with government intervention go against their instincts.
- cameldrv 6y ago
  There are loads of teachers, librarians, sports coaches, parks employees, etc, etc that can’t do their jobs due to COVID. Those people could be doing contact tracing.
  - MaximumYComb 6y ago
    Good luck making it work in a hyper individualistic society. Person A who has been told they're required to do contact tracing will get annoyed that their neighbour B doesn't have to do it but is still getting money. Add to that mix the antivaxxers, conspiracy theorists, people that dislike government, etc.
    - cameldrv 6y ago
      These people are already being paid their normal salaries by the government. If they don't want to work, they can quit. Now, if someone is in a high risk group, they probably shouldn't be out in the field, but a lot of contact tracing is done over the phone.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      My response to that right now would be “Too damn bad.”
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Teachers are still working during COVID, in fact they probably have to do more work to adapt to hasty, scrappy adoption of online learning. I don’t think the other ones exist in significantly large amounts to be meaningful and even then, keep in mind that furloughed people are not getting paid. The money has to come from somewhere to start paying them for whatever again, and states and cities have limited funding resources even before COVID blew a hole in most tax revenues.
rconti 6y ago
In CA, when Gavin Newsom began reopening the state (many folks thought, "too early"), he repeatedly insisted it was not because of political pressure, but because of the data. But at the same time, there were health officials being given PUBLIC DEATH THREATS by people who insisted that wearing a mask was dangerous to their health. Ultimately, I suppose you have to give into politics and public pressure. A mandate that nobody respects and can't really be enforced has no value at all. It's plausible that responding to political pressure and trying to reopen, or give dates and phases, would result in better adherence than just telling the whole state "sorry, stay home indefinitely".
- walleeee 6y ago
  > A mandate that nobody respects and can't really be enforced has no value at all. A mandate is essentially unenforceable, yes, but it's valuable regardless. It's about setting social norms and expectations. If public figures had put forward a consistent message regarding masks from the beginning, we'd have seen better compliance and fewer people would be dead now.
  - orangecat 6y ago
    If public figures had put forward a consistent message regarding masks from the beginning True, and that was impossible once CDC decided to lie to the public in an attempt to preserve supplies for hospitals.
pound 6y ago
"over 130k have died" - it's over 140k already (and even few hundreds short of 150k) :/
perl4ever 6y ago
>We have millions of people out of work whom we could be paying to do contact tracing I was recently (a year and a half ago, time flies) out of work, and I did get a solicitation about a contact tracing job since the epidemic started. I didn't think my experience was applicable, nor am I free, but somehow they found me. Maybe they have indeed been trying to recruit pretty widely?
dennisgorelik 6y ago
> We have millions of people out of work whom we could be paying to do contact tracing Paying to millions of unemployed people to do contact tracing - does not mean effective contact tracing.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Why not? It’s not like it demands any specific skills, and there are a lot of people out of work who would jump on the chance to not go back to their old jobs right now.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    It demands somewhat general but far from universal skills. Look at for example the CDC's suggested training (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/contact-tracer-sample-training-plan.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/cont...) - this isn't something the average person will be able to pick up quickly and easily.

liuliu 6y ago

You cannot have massive job program without state financial going into red. And states have to balance their book every year.

lukevdp 6y ago
Is that actually a thing that states aren’t allowed to borrow?
- ralph84 6y ago
  State and local governments are allowed to borrow and they do quite a lot of it. The difference is they don’t have a guaranteed buyer for their debt like the federal government does with the federal reserve.
  - kyboren 6y ago
    > The difference is they don’t have a guaranteed buyer for their debt like the federal government does with the federal reserve. That is no longer true: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/muni.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/muni.htm On April 8, 2020, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (the Board), by the unanimous vote of its five members and with the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, authorized the establishment and operation of the Municipal Liquidity Facility (MLF) under section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act (12 U.S.C. § 343(3)). The MLF is intended to support lending to state, city, and county governments. Under the MLF, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (Reserve Bank) will commit to lend on a recourse basis to a special purpose vehicle (SPV). The SPV will purchase eligible notes directly from eligible issuers at the time of issuance. [...] The Department of the Treasury, using funds appropriated to the Exchange Stabilization Fund under section 4027 of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act), will make a $35 billion equity investment in the SPV in connection with the MLF. https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/municipal-liquidity-facility-4-16-20.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/municipal-...
- projektfu 6y ago
  States borrow but almost all must balance the budget. When they borrow it should be a project, not to cover a shortfall. This is not a federal requirement but a restriction the states put on themselves. https://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-balanced-budget-requirements.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-balanced-b...
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    How many of those states have emergency powers provisions that would allow them to override that restriction?
    - projektfu 6y ago
      I don’t have any special insight beyond what’s in the article. This is likely why state governments have been talking about federal aid.
pmiller2 6y ago
Which is why I mentioned the federal government could have, and should have stepped in.

Arainach 6y ago

States and cities can't run deficits and so can't create the funding for this out of thin air. Republicans have campaigned for years on a platform that "Government doesn't work" and have been remarkably committed to providing evidence for that claim when elected. Both hiring people and solving a crisis with government intervention go against their instincts.

cameldrv 6y ago
There are loads of teachers, librarians, sports coaches, parks employees, etc, etc that can’t do their jobs due to COVID. Those people could be doing contact tracing.
- MaximumYComb 6y ago
  Good luck making it work in a hyper individualistic society. Person A who has been told they're required to do contact tracing will get annoyed that their neighbour B doesn't have to do it but is still getting money. Add to that mix the antivaxxers, conspiracy theorists, people that dislike government, etc.
  - cameldrv 6y ago
    These people are already being paid their normal salaries by the government. If they don't want to work, they can quit. Now, if someone is in a high risk group, they probably shouldn't be out in the field, but a lot of contact tracing is done over the phone.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    My response to that right now would be “Too damn bad.”
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Teachers are still working during COVID, in fact they probably have to do more work to adapt to hasty, scrappy adoption of online learning. I don’t think the other ones exist in significantly large amounts to be meaningful and even then, keep in mind that furloughed people are not getting paid. The money has to come from somewhere to start paying them for whatever again, and states and cities have limited funding resources even before COVID blew a hole in most tax revenues.

rconti 6y ago

In CA, when Gavin Newsom began reopening the state (many folks thought, "too early"), he repeatedly insisted it was not because of political pressure, but because of the data. But at the same time, there were health officials being given PUBLIC DEATH THREATS by people who insisted that wearing a mask was dangerous to their health. Ultimately, I suppose you have to give into politics and public pressure. A mandate that nobody respects and can't really be enforced has no value at all. It's plausible that responding to political pressure and trying to reopen, or give dates and phases, would result in better adherence than just telling the whole state "sorry, stay home indefinitely".

walleeee 6y ago
> A mandate that nobody respects and can't really be enforced has no value at all. A mandate is essentially unenforceable, yes, but it's valuable regardless. It's about setting social norms and expectations. If public figures had put forward a consistent message regarding masks from the beginning, we'd have seen better compliance and fewer people would be dead now.
- orangecat 6y ago
  If public figures had put forward a consistent message regarding masks from the beginning True, and that was impossible once CDC decided to lie to the public in an attempt to preserve supplies for hospitals.

pound 6y ago

"over 130k have died" - it's over 140k already (and even few hundreds short of 150k) :/

perl4ever 6y ago

>We have millions of people out of work whom we could be paying to do contact tracing I was recently (a year and a half ago, time flies) out of work, and I did get a solicitation about a contact tracing job since the epidemic started. I didn't think my experience was applicable, nor am I free, but somehow they found me. Maybe they have indeed been trying to recruit pretty widely?

dennisgorelik 6y ago

> We have millions of people out of work whom we could be paying to do contact tracing Paying to millions of unemployed people to do contact tracing - does not mean effective contact tracing.

pmiller2 6y ago
Why not? It’s not like it demands any specific skills, and there are a lot of people out of work who would jump on the chance to not go back to their old jobs right now.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  It demands somewhat general but far from universal skills. Look at for example the CDC's suggested training (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/contact-tracer-sample-training-plan.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/cont...) - this isn't something the average person will be able to pick up quickly and easily.