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I am not discounting the fact that you have problems in your life. I know what it means to be poor because I have been poor in a 3rd world country. >> People w

I am not discounting the fact that you have problems in your life. I know what it means to be poor because I have been poor in a 3rd world country. >> People who experience homelessness have an average life expectancy of around 50 years of age, almost 20 years lower than housed populations There are kids literally dying because they don't have access to healthcare. >> formal education on the topic of homelessness There are millions if not billions of people who can't read or write their names. I am not blaming you for your situation, life can be difficult sometimes and it literally sucks to be in that position despite of all your efforts. I can empathize with your situation but I simply cannot agree with certain parts of the article.

tlarkworthy 6y ago
I dunno why your being so harsh. It's not a competition on who who had the most dreadful circumstances. FYI, the average life expectancy in Papua New Guinea is 64. Homelessness, even in a first world country, is objectively a bad situation to be in regardless. I am thankful to the author for sharing her reality with me. I appreciate her lucidity which is a huge asset I think.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- imheretolearn 6y ago
  >> Ultimately, I concluded that being able to choose wasn't really about money per se but was about maneuvering room. Yes, having sufficient resources helps, but making choices in life and exercising free will is not directly related to how much or how little money a person has. It helps if you have some confidence you won't starve or otherwise experience catastrophe, but that isn't about money per se. I am not being harsh just highlighting the fact that there are a lot of implicit assumptions being made in the article wherein most of the population of the world in poor countries simply don't have the freedom to do so.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    The piece states pretty early on that it was being written for a forum I run on Reddit called Gig Works. It is aimed primarily at Americans looking for alternative work arrangements and at people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness in the US because they are twice exceptional or have other barriers to regular employment. It promotes the idea that not only can beggars be choosers, they need to be if they are ever to resolve their problems. This was a theme of my first homeless blog that was written while I was in actual fact homeless. (I'm not currently.) I've been on Hacker News for eleven years, so some people recognize my name and know some of my back story. A previous version of this article, which is no longer available to the public, did surprisingly well a few years ago. Since it is no longer available, I reposted the updated version because I figured it might be of some interest to some people here. I have two sons who tend to be pretty literal and as children they would say things like "You are too heavy for me to pick up -- unless we are in water or if we were on the moon...etc." Most people aren't that literal and I gave plenty of contextual cues in the piece as to whom I am trying to speak to. You are rebutting a phantom argument where, in your mind, I am speaking to people who literally cannot read my words due to a combination of lack of internet access and lack of literacy and lack of knowledge of the English language. Most people don't think that's a reasonable argument to make since it's a pretty obvious fact that my blog post isn't being written with the idea that those people will be reading the piece and taking any advice from me. About a third of Americans have not paid their rent/mortgage this month. There is a global pandemic on and articles are predicting that upwards of 20 million Americans will be evicted between now and September. It may not be anything you care about because there are people in worse straits, but it's a very big problem for the US currently. I'm in no position to help illiterate people in third world countries who have no internet access. I am in a position to help Americans who find themselves in dire straits all of a sudden due to a global pandemic or due to personal factors unrelated to the pandemic. Those are the kinds of people I hope to reach. There is zero intent to lecture illiterate people in third world countries who lack internet access. That is so far outside of my intentions, that it "goes without saying." So it wasn't said.
    - Invictus0 6y ago
      > It promotes the idea that not only can beggars be choosers, they need to be if they are ever to resolve their problems. I wish you had said this directly in the article because I had a tough time figuring out your point.
- scott_siskind 6y ago
  I find it very easy to understand where parent commenter is coming from. Even though this may not be obvious, this is very much a competition. A competition for attention, for emotional support, or simply for validation. And when you've experienced the neglect, being ignored by society and generally the experience of homelessness or any other terrible circumstances, and see someone with better circumstances getting support and help, it should naturally lead to a feeling of anger, unfairness (whether conscious or not). This is what's happening here. Also, all the comments complaining of "whataboutism", "not true scotsman" and so on show a profound lack of empathy with this commenter. You're complaining that this commenter is not showing empathy to OP, when no-one is showing any empathy to his (or other people's) harsher circumstances.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - imtringued 6y ago
    You must be misunderstanding the nature of poverty if you think so. Someone with better circumstances is by definition getting better support and help than someone with worse circumstances otherwise their circumstances would not be better. The more help you get the richer you are and there is no upper bound to that but if you don't get enough help that's when you are poor. I like the literacy example. Someone who learned to read and write at a school received more help than someone who didn't go to school. Now extend this to high school, university and all the job experience you got during your career. Someone who has gotten more help is not always deserving less help, especially if they can use that help to support themselves and free up or contribute resources to help others. If you think this is a zero sum game then diverting that attention to someone else will not solve poverty. One person will become poorer, the other will become less poor. The "real" loser is one who believes in zero sum thinking.
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
What would Doreen have to do or say to satisfy you? Jus to be clear: No one is suggesting children dying of a combination of malaria and protein energy malnutrition just need to surf reddit and gather coupons. So what is it, exactly, you’re taking issue with?
- imheretolearn 6y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23948028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23948028
BlahGod420 6y ago
Even in a first world country: 1. Be homeless. 2. Have diarrhea 3. Try finding a bathroom. Don't forget that many people in populated cities are going to take one look at you and prejudices are going to shoot up. Now throw in Covid. Welcome to hell. Being homeless is excruciating no matter the country.

tlarkworthy 6y ago

I dunno why your being so harsh. It's not a competition on who who had the most dreadful circumstances. FYI, the average life expectancy in Papua New Guinea is 64. Homelessness, even in a first world country, is objectively a bad situation to be in regardless. I am thankful to the author for sharing her reality with me. I appreciate her lucidity which is a huge asset I think.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
imheretolearn 6y ago
>> Ultimately, I concluded that being able to choose wasn't really about money per se but was about maneuvering room. Yes, having sufficient resources helps, but making choices in life and exercising free will is not directly related to how much or how little money a person has. It helps if you have some confidence you won't starve or otherwise experience catastrophe, but that isn't about money per se. I am not being harsh just highlighting the fact that there are a lot of implicit assumptions being made in the article wherein most of the population of the world in poor countries simply don't have the freedom to do so.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  The piece states pretty early on that it was being written for a forum I run on Reddit called Gig Works. It is aimed primarily at Americans looking for alternative work arrangements and at people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness in the US because they are twice exceptional or have other barriers to regular employment. It promotes the idea that not only can beggars be choosers, they need to be if they are ever to resolve their problems. This was a theme of my first homeless blog that was written while I was in actual fact homeless. (I'm not currently.) I've been on Hacker News for eleven years, so some people recognize my name and know some of my back story. A previous version of this article, which is no longer available to the public, did surprisingly well a few years ago. Since it is no longer available, I reposted the updated version because I figured it might be of some interest to some people here. I have two sons who tend to be pretty literal and as children they would say things like "You are too heavy for me to pick up -- unless we are in water or if we were on the moon...etc." Most people aren't that literal and I gave plenty of contextual cues in the piece as to whom I am trying to speak to. You are rebutting a phantom argument where, in your mind, I am speaking to people who literally cannot read my words due to a combination of lack of internet access and lack of literacy and lack of knowledge of the English language. Most people don't think that's a reasonable argument to make since it's a pretty obvious fact that my blog post isn't being written with the idea that those people will be reading the piece and taking any advice from me. About a third of Americans have not paid their rent/mortgage this month. There is a global pandemic on and articles are predicting that upwards of 20 million Americans will be evicted between now and September. It may not be anything you care about because there are people in worse straits, but it's a very big problem for the US currently. I'm in no position to help illiterate people in third world countries who have no internet access. I am in a position to help Americans who find themselves in dire straits all of a sudden due to a global pandemic or due to personal factors unrelated to the pandemic. Those are the kinds of people I hope to reach. There is zero intent to lecture illiterate people in third world countries who lack internet access. That is so far outside of my intentions, that it "goes without saying." So it wasn't said.
  - Invictus0 6y ago
    > It promotes the idea that not only can beggars be choosers, they need to be if they are ever to resolve their problems. I wish you had said this directly in the article because I had a tough time figuring out your point.
scott_siskind 6y ago
I find it very easy to understand where parent commenter is coming from. Even though this may not be obvious, this is very much a competition. A competition for attention, for emotional support, or simply for validation. And when you've experienced the neglect, being ignored by society and generally the experience of homelessness or any other terrible circumstances, and see someone with better circumstances getting support and help, it should naturally lead to a feeling of anger, unfairness (whether conscious or not). This is what's happening here. Also, all the comments complaining of "whataboutism", "not true scotsman" and so on show a profound lack of empathy with this commenter. You're complaining that this commenter is not showing empathy to OP, when no-one is showing any empathy to his (or other people's) harsher circumstances.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- imtringued 6y ago
  You must be misunderstanding the nature of poverty if you think so. Someone with better circumstances is by definition getting better support and help than someone with worse circumstances otherwise their circumstances would not be better. The more help you get the richer you are and there is no upper bound to that but if you don't get enough help that's when you are poor. I like the literacy example. Someone who learned to read and write at a school received more help than someone who didn't go to school. Now extend this to high school, university and all the job experience you got during your career. Someone who has gotten more help is not always deserving less help, especially if they can use that help to support themselves and free up or contribute resources to help others. If you think this is a zero sum game then diverting that attention to someone else will not solve poverty. One person will become poorer, the other will become less poor. The "real" loser is one who believes in zero sum thinking.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

What would Doreen have to do or say to satisfy you? Jus to be clear: No one is suggesting children dying of a combination of malaria and protein energy malnutrition just need to surf reddit and gather coupons. So what is it, exactly, you’re taking issue with?

imheretolearn 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23948028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23948028

BlahGod420 6y ago

Even in a first world country: 1. Be homeless. 2. Have diarrhea 3. Try finding a bathroom. Don't forget that many people in populated cities are going to take one look at you and prejudices are going to shoot up. Now throw in Covid. Welcome to hell. Being homeless is excruciating no matter the country.