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"Since Garmin at least made money on the hardware, collecting my health data is just icing on the cake; for Strava, my health data is the cake." I dont see a d

"Since Garmin at least made money on the hardware, collecting my health data is just icing on the cake; for Strava, my health data is the cake." I dont see a difference between what Garmin and Strava do to your data. Ultimately, Strava is trying to provide you some more insights using your health data. It ultimately depends whether you want it or not. Isn't this the same with all the services these days?

skummetmaelk 6y ago
That's like saying Google collects user data _only_ to improve search. We all know it goes much deeper than that.
calcifer 6y ago
> Ultimately, Strava is trying to provide you some more insights using your health data. No, Strava is trying to monetize my data. That I can get some insights from their monetization attempts is incidental.
- makomk 6y ago
  It's not that incidental. From what I can tell, Strava's business model is about selling users more detailed analysis of and insight into their own health and performance data.
ogre_codes 6y ago
I think what the author is trying to say here is that Garmin has a way of making money off them—selling hardware—and thus doesn't need to sell user data as well. Strava has no way of monetizing outside of selling user data. I'm not sure this is entirely true though, I've seen hardware companies sell out their users for a few bucks. Likewise, Strava has ways to make money from users—via Strava Premium services. I have no idea how well these particular companies handle data specifically so it's hard to say.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Strava turned off most of their free features and is now pretty much a subscription service.
  - kingosticks 6y ago
    That's a massive exaggeration. They turned off some features. The free offering is still very usable.
- nradov 6y ago
  In addition to membership fees, Strava also gets revenue from marketing partnerships. Brands pay them to set up custom "challenges" which Strava users join to try and win prizes or contribute to charity. They also have sponsored integrations with several device vendors so that every activity you record with one of those devices is a clickable ad.
- matsemann 6y ago
  I pay monthly for Strava, so you are very wrong. You shouldn't spread false information. So, it's not like the old meme about one being the product if one doesn't pay...
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Did you reply to the wrong post? > You shouldn't spread false information. Curious about which part of my post you think is false. Perhaps you didn’t read my entire post and just blindly posted before you got the the second paragraph?
xg15 6y ago
> Ultimately, Strava is trying to provide you some more insights using your health data. It ultimately depends whether you want it or not. Isn't this the same with all the services these days? If this were all, they wouldn't need dark patterns to manipulat you into giving them their health data even though you actually want something completely different from the service.
- matsemann 6y ago
  Your heart rate is health data. Uploading an activity includes pulse data, which is useful to analyze to see performance etc. Not having health data on Strava would make the service meaningless. Stop spreading this FUD all over the thread. It's not a dark pattern, uploading this data is exactly what Strava is made for...
  - xg15 6y ago
    > uploading this data is exactly what Strava is made for... Do the users know this as well? Skimming Strava's homepage, all the UI that is shown is either generic social network stuff or about presenting location data - and this was also what OP expected the service to do. The only text on the page that could imply health data being used are general statements about how Strava can "analyze your performance" and help you getting better. There are no mentions at all about particular health data points such as heart rate. (But plenty of mention of location data points such as position, elevation or speed) This does not indicate at all that collecting and analyzing health data is the main thing that Strava does. > It's not a dark pattern, ... Putting a user setting behind three redundant confirmation screens with confusing options is a dark pattern no matter the context.
    - matsemann 6y ago
      If you skimmed Strava's homepage, the first feature listed [0] is "Track and analyze every aspect of your activity." with an animated heart beat. If you have to misrepresent Strava all the time to get your point across you should consider it might be invalid. [0]: https://www.strava.com/features https://www.strava.com/features

skummetmaelk 6y ago

That's like saying Google collects user data _only_ to improve search. We all know it goes much deeper than that.

calcifer 6y ago

> Ultimately, Strava is trying to provide you some more insights using your health data. No, Strava is trying to monetize my data. That I can get some insights from their monetization attempts is incidental.

makomk 6y ago
It's not that incidental. From what I can tell, Strava's business model is about selling users more detailed analysis of and insight into their own health and performance data.

ogre_codes 6y ago

I think what the author is trying to say here is that Garmin has a way of making money off them—selling hardware—and thus doesn't need to sell user data as well. Strava has no way of monetizing outside of selling user data. I'm not sure this is entirely true though, I've seen hardware companies sell out their users for a few bucks. Likewise, Strava has ways to make money from users—via Strava Premium services. I have no idea how well these particular companies handle data specifically so it's hard to say.

maxerickson 6y ago
Strava turned off most of their free features and is now pretty much a subscription service.
- kingosticks 6y ago
  That's a massive exaggeration. They turned off some features. The free offering is still very usable.
nradov 6y ago
In addition to membership fees, Strava also gets revenue from marketing partnerships. Brands pay them to set up custom "challenges" which Strava users join to try and win prizes or contribute to charity. They also have sponsored integrations with several device vendors so that every activity you record with one of those devices is a clickable ad.
matsemann 6y ago
I pay monthly for Strava, so you are very wrong. You shouldn't spread false information. So, it's not like the old meme about one being the product if one doesn't pay...
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Did you reply to the wrong post? > You shouldn't spread false information. Curious about which part of my post you think is false. Perhaps you didn’t read my entire post and just blindly posted before you got the the second paragraph?

xg15 6y ago

> Ultimately, Strava is trying to provide you some more insights using your health data. It ultimately depends whether you want it or not. Isn't this the same with all the services these days? If this were all, they wouldn't need dark patterns to manipulat you into giving them their health data even though you actually want something completely different from the service.

matsemann 6y ago
Your heart rate is health data. Uploading an activity includes pulse data, which is useful to analyze to see performance etc. Not having health data on Strava would make the service meaningless. Stop spreading this FUD all over the thread. It's not a dark pattern, uploading this data is exactly what Strava is made for...
- xg15 6y ago
  > uploading this data is exactly what Strava is made for... Do the users know this as well? Skimming Strava's homepage, all the UI that is shown is either generic social network stuff or about presenting location data - and this was also what OP expected the service to do. The only text on the page that could imply health data being used are general statements about how Strava can "analyze your performance" and help you getting better. There are no mentions at all about particular health data points such as heart rate. (But plenty of mention of location data points such as position, elevation or speed) This does not indicate at all that collecting and analyzing health data is the main thing that Strava does. > It's not a dark pattern, ... Putting a user setting behind three redundant confirmation screens with confusing options is a dark pattern no matter the context.
  - matsemann 6y ago
    If you skimmed Strava's homepage, the first feature listed [0] is "Track and analyze every aspect of your activity." with an animated heart beat. If you have to misrepresent Strava all the time to get your point across you should consider it might be invalid. [0]: https://www.strava.com/features https://www.strava.com/features