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> And then there's a swath of conservatives that don't think they're racist. You are aware that the way you phrase it makes it sound like we all are? I've rec
by skinkestek 6y ago
> And then there's a swath of conservatives that don't think they're racist.
You are aware that the way you phrase it makes it sound like we all are?
I've recognized a few times that I say things in a way that makes people mad even though my original point was fine.
- cultus 6y agoHave you considered that perhaps you could have unconscious racial biases? It sounds like you do if you're making people mad about it.
- skinkestek 6y agoMostly people are not mad at me for this but for other things I guess. In fact I have had a foreigner come back and thank me several years later for the effort I put in for her and there are several others that seem happy evertime I meet them. (HN is a weird place though. Here I am racist according to many peoples definitions.)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- all_usernames 6y ago> makes it sound like we all are Ding ding ding! Yes. We all are. Conservatives and liberals. Everyone is programmed with racist attitudes from the culture-at-large. Many or most never question these unconscious attitudes. In my experience, folks who have been actively working on racism and social justice for years if not decades are the first to admit that they too carry racist, largely unconscious, beliefs and attitudes. A lot of people don't seem to grok unconscious bias.
- tmpz22 6y ago"We all are. Conservatives and liberals." Genuine question, does this include black people?
- JAlexoid 6y agoYes, because racism is: Racism, also called racialism, the belief that humans may be divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races”; that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural and behavioral features; and that some races are innately superior to others. https://www.britannica.com/topic/racism https://www.britannica.com/topic/racism
- dixie_land 6y agowhen you put it that way it almost sounds like a neutral and scientific term
- Fjolsvith 6y agoPretty fancy description. I was taught that racism was treating someone wrong because they didn't look like myself.
- shadowgovt 6y agoThere's a couple of definitions. Formal academia and colloquial definitions have drifted apart.
- lioeters 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_racism
- froasty 6y agoDing ding ding! Yes. We all are. Christians and Jews. Everyone is born with original sin from being born from Adam and Eve. Many or most never question this concupiscence. In my experience, folks who have been actively working on heresy and inquisitions for years if not decades are the first to admit that they too carry rebellious, largely hereditary, inclinations towards sin. A lot of people don't seem to grok original sin.
- haecceity 6y agoI think he means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_stereotype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_stereotype
- disgruntledphd2 6y agoWhich, to be fair, is kinda congruent with original sin.
- mxmilkb 6y agoI don't think it is, but like you I'll leave the analysis to the reader
- mcv 6y agoMy analysis as a reader is that there might be something to it. On the one hand, the concept of original sin sounds deeply unfair, but then again, when you look at society, it's kinda hard to deny that most people really are drawn to all sorts of prejudice, selfishness, etc, and it takes real effort to recognise that, admit it, and work to improve. A lot of people feel like they don't need to do that because their arrogance tells them they're already doing everything right. I don't think that's ever the case.
- skinkestek 6y ago> On the one hand, the concept of original sin sounds deeply unfair, but then again, when you look at society, it's kinda hard to deny that most people really are drawn to all sorts of prejudice, selfishness, etc, and it takes real effort to recognise that, admit it, and work to improve. As a christian I feel this is a major thing: the realization that you can be perfectly innocent in that you: - didn't do anything that any law can punish you for - wasn't aware of doing anything wrong as you were doing it yet you are far from perfect and when you minutes/days/years later you realize despite your best intentions you still bragged/discriminated/were unfair/went too far/didn't go far enough/etc and you'll be sorry and wish you could do better. To keep this interesting to everyone in this audience I think I'll avoid going further into the topic unless anyone asks but for anyone particularly interested I'll say that I think this is what Paul grapples with in in Romans 7.
- rbecker 6y ago> Everyone is programmed with racist attitudes from the culture-at-large. We can't blame it all on culture when even six month old babies exhibit racism: https://www.utoronto.ca/news/racial-bias-may-begin-babies-six-months-u-t-research-reveals https://www.utoronto.ca/news/racial-bias-may-begin-babies-si...
- cblconfederate 6y agoYou are suggesting that modern society is fighting human nature then. That's unwinnable, barring genetic modification. Also, the idea of an original sin is a very christian thing which makes the advocacy of that view ... religioist?
- thomasahle 6y ago> You are suggesting that modern society is fighting human nature then. That's unwinnable, barring genetic modification. Why? Modern society is built on things that go against human nature: The national state, living till we're 80, flying, not killing people, monogamy. I think you are making the classical moral mistake of assuming the natural state of things is the best state of things.
- cblconfederate 6y agoSocieties ban actions, not subconscious thoughts. People can fantasize about polygamy or rape or bestiality as long as they are not realized. Societies that suppress thoughts are called oppressive.
- mcv 6y agoBeing human is all about going against your instincts. We're not merely animals; we can learn and improve, we can think about consequences, we can better ourselves. This is what all of human history has been about. We might never reach a perfect end-state, but that doesn't mean that improvement is not a worthwhile endeavor.
- dangus 6y agoOf course, there’s no way that Republicans are racist or sexist (intentional or not). A full 9% of Republican congresspeople are women. There are 3 Black Republican congresspeople, or 1.19%.
- jasonm23 6y agoWhy would these people not be racist or sexist? Women and men can both be sexist towards women, and hold generalised negative prejudices and biases towards men. (what some people would call sexism towards men.) Similarly black people can both be racist towards black people, and similarly hold negative generalised prejudices and biases towards non-black people. (What some people refer to as racism.) Humans are inherently biased.
- lambdasquirrel 6y agoI apologize if it made you feel that and it wasn't comfortable. But part of my consideration in saying that was... this is not politically correct to say (i.e. that it might sound like all conservatives are racist), and I don't know how else to say it, so, I'll say it. But I do appreciate that you called it out. I grapple with being racist all the time. The way I climbed up was through a lot of institutions that racist. I grapple with my complicated place in the world, when I talk to my shrink, and not infrequently, because there's a lot of non-PC / uncomfortable things about it all too. I can't get away from both sides of the racism, because of the genes I was born with, so I have to talk about it with someone. If people don't like the whole politically-correct thing, well, this is it too.
- blue52 6y agoI've found the best way is just to accept the silly label if someone accuses you of "racism".
- trianglem 6y agoI’d rather accept that literally everything else was silly so nice try.
- mcv 6y agoMy approach is to try to understand in what way I might still be racist and improve myself.
- skinkestek 6y agoThat is a good attitude, in line with what others are talking about with "original sin". My and I guess many others point in this thread is that a lot of people are running around alienating a lot of people who would be ashamed to even catch themselves thinking a racist thought by insisting they are "racist" since they might have implicit biases.
- schwartzworld 6y agoSupporting the racists because you think it's better for your wallet is still racist. Supporting policies that hurt POCs disproportionately is racist even if you don't understand why. When someone points out something is racist, is your response to explain why it isn't or change?
- DeusExMachina 6y agoPeople should not change just because you redefine being racist however you please.
- schwartzworld 6y agoHave I redefined it?